You like random penalties but not unraked bunkers?

[Michael Morandi]

There will always be a certain randomness to the penalty of  a random shot. But to those who liked  the randomness of Pinehurst native areas, I ask why rake bunkers?

[Tim_Cronin]

That was tried in the early years of golf and found to be unfair. Footprints, etc.


Quit while you're behind.

[Michael Morandi]

That was tried in the early years of golf and found to be unfair. Footprints, etc.


Quit while you're behind.

I take it that you don’t like Pine Valley or Friars Head when it was founded and it is well documented that the sand in the natives at Pinehurst had footprints.

[Matt Schoolfield]

I ask why rake bunkers?

I generally agree, but when people effectively dig trenches with their feet digging in, not raking bunkers effectively incentivizes folks to leave them as penal as possible for the competitors behind them… which doesn’t seem sporting.


I like Penick’s proposal… rake them into furrows.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Yeah, “bunkers are supposed to be penal so don’t go in them”…


…so goes one of the ten commandments that is preached on here.


But if hazards are too penal, then it negates all strategy. Because the strategy becomes purely “avoid the hazards at all cost”.

[Sean_A]

Yeah, “bunkers are supposed to be penal so don’t go in them”…

…so goes one of the ten commandments that is preached on here.

But if hazards are too penal, then it negates all strategy. Because the strategy becomes purely “avoid the hazards at all cost”.

Cha ching. That said, if bunkers were treated like water, they could be kept much harsher and built much harsher.

Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

Here is what Brooks Koepka said in an interview after the first round:


[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]Felt in control of iron play. Brain fart on 13 and 15. Just didn’t do much wrong. Missed it where I wanted. Sixteen was my bad drive of day and didn’t get lucky in the native area, which is what you get when you hit it in there. Just part of Pinehurst and what makes it good.[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)][/size][/color]

[Brian Finn]

There will always be a certain randomness to the penalty of  a random shot. But to those who liked  the randomness of Pinehurst native areas, I ask why rake bunkers?

Please take a break from starting new threads. 

[Jim_Coleman]

   I’ve played Pine Velley 50+ times. Never had an unplayable lie in the sand, probably because the sand is generally quite firm and the players and caddies get it and don’t leave big prints. Wouldn’t work on parkland course bunkers where the imported sand is generally soft.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I like Penick’s proposal… rake them into furrows.

Remember when Jack did that for the Memorial a few years back.  Apparently a few players said to Jack - "If you do that again then I am not coming back".  He should have called their bluff.

[Tom_Doak]

   I’ve played Pine Velley 50+ times. Never had an unplayable lie in the sand, probably because the sand is generally quite firm and the players and caddies get it and don’t leave big prints. Wouldn’t work on parkland course bunkers where the imported sand is generally soft.

The second time I visited PV, I was part of a group of 7 good players (plus me) who were gambling a bit, and our host pointedly told the caddies on the first hole not to improve anyone’s lies in our group.  Apparently it wasn’t a rare thing back in the day.

[Michael Morandi]

There will always be a certain randomness to the penalty of  a random shot. But to those who liked  the randomness of Pinehurst native areas, I ask why rake bunkers?

Please take a break from starting new threads.

Sorry.  I had too much time on my hands. The native areas at Pinehurst got me wondering about a lot of things.

[Craig Sweet]

The "native areas" at Pinehurst are what they are. There is no way to trick them up for a US Open, like say growing the rough to 6 inches.  That said, when only a handful of players finished below par something had to be responsible for those high scores.

[Tom_Doak]

The "native areas" at Pinehurst are what they are. There is no way to trick them up for a US Open, like say growing the rough to 6 inches.

This is not true.  I didn't see much of the telecast, but I heard a bunch of references to the fact they had planted wire grass a lot more densely 300-325 yards from the tees, in order to penalize offline drives more than they were penalized in 2014.  I didn't see enough of DeChambeau's play to tell if he benefited from hitting it over the most dense plantings; it wasn't obvious in any of the highlights I saw.

[Ben Sims]

I’ve only seen it mentioned a few times. I found Bryson’s win at WFW and PH2 very similar for one specific reason, his equipment/strength.


He can maintain clubhead speed with lofted clubs from dense rough and sand (two instances where that trait is highly rewarded vs the field). Some people say he got some breaks. He did. But he also had the ability to use speed (due to his single length irons and his strength) from lies that where other players couldn’t.

[Tommy Williamsen]

That was tried in the early years of golf and found to be unfair. Footprints, etc.


Quit while you're behind.

I take it that you don’t like Pine Valley or Friars Head when it was founded and it is well documented that the sand in the natives at Pinehurst had footprints.

There is a difference between bunkers and waste areas. Bunkers at Friars Head are raked by the caddies.

[Michael Morandi]

That was tried in the early years of golf and found to be unfair. Footprints, etc.


Quit while you're behind.

I take it that you don’t like Pine Valley or Friars Head when it was founded and it is well documented that the sand in the natives at Pinehurst had footprints.

There is a difference between bunkers and waste areas. Bunkers at Friars Head are raked by the caddies.

I played Friars  Head many times in its first years. There were no rakes then. Players were asked to smooth out the bunker after their play. I know the difference between waste areas and bunkers.

[Tim Martin]

I’ve only seen it mentioned a few times. I found Bryson’s win at WFW and PH2 very similar for one specific reason, his equipment/strength.


He can maintain clubhead speed with lofted clubs from dense rough and sand (two instances where that trait is highly rewarded vs the field). Some people say he got some breaks. He did. But he also had the ability to use speed (due to his single length irons and his strength) from lies that where other players couldn’t.

I thought the same thing when considering his ability to play out of the wire grass/native areas. He has a skill set that may be unique to only him which really was highlighted on a design like PH2. Finally to make par on 18 knowing what was at stake showed him able to keep his emotions in check which was paramount down the stretch. Unfortunately for Rory his nerves did not hold up when it really counted.

[Michael Morandi]

I’ve only seen it mentioned a few times. I found Bryson’s win at WFW and PH2 very similar for one specific reason, his equipment/strength.


He can maintain clubhead speed with lofted clubs from dense rough and sand (two instances where that trait is highly rewarded vs the field). Some people say he got some breaks. He did. But he also had the ability to use speed (due to his single length irons and his strength) from lies that where other players couldn’t.

I thought the same thing when considering his ability to play out of the wire grass/native areas. He has a skill set that may be unique to only him which really was highlighted on a design like PH2. Finally to make par on 18 knowing what was at stake showed him able to keep his emotions in check which was paramount down the stretch. Unfortunately for Rory his nerves did not hold up when it really counted.

Paul McGinley said his par on 18 was made easier knowing that a bogey got him into a playoff

[Tim Martin]

I’ve only seen it mentioned a few times. I found Bryson’s win at WFW and PH2 very similar for one specific reason, his equipment/strength.


He can maintain clubhead speed with lofted clubs from dense rough and sand (two instances where that trait is highly rewarded vs the field). Some people say he got some breaks. He did. But he also had the ability to use speed (due to his single length irons and his strength) from lies that where other players couldn’t.

I thought the same thing when considering his ability to play out of the wire grass/native areas. He has a skill set that may be unique to only him which really was highlighted on a design like PH2. Finally to make par on 18 knowing what was at stake showed him able to keep his emotions in check which was paramount down the stretch. Unfortunately for Rory his nerves did not hold up when it really counted.

Paul McGinley said his par on 18 was made easier knowing that a bogey got him into a playoff

Paul McGinley needs to lay off the catnip. I was sick
of listening to him by Sunday.

[Thomas Dai]

Yeah, “bunkers are supposed to be penal so don’t go in them”…
…so goes one of the ten commandments that is preached on here.
But if hazards are too penal, then it negates all strategy. Because the strategy becomes purely “avoid the hazards at all cost”.

Cha ching. That said, if bunkers were treated like water, that could be kept much harsher and built much harsher.
Ciao

Spot on!
Atb

[Jeff Schley]

Jeez with all these complaints here, surprised there isn’t still outrage for DJ at Whistling Straits where spectators were in “bunkers”.