[Thomas Dai]

Curiosity time in relation to those not ‘in the golf business’.
Unless your having fun why do you continue to play golf? If it’s not fun why aren’t you doing something else?
Curious to know.

Atb

[Jim Hoak]

1)  The wonderful people you meet and get to associate with.
2)  The incredible places you get to travel to.
3)  The experience, the history and the sharing of the most amazing game that you never conquer.

I can't conceive of my life without golf, and I thank my father for introducing me to it!

[Ira Fishman]

Jim captures it perfectly. Other than a painfully slow round or the extremely infrequent pair up with a jerk, I have had fun on every round on every course that I have played since first trying the game on Cook County public courses as a break from playground baseball more than 50 years ago.


I will add only two things: (1) in the reverse of Jim, I introduced my Father to the game/sport who immediately became an addict to the point that in retirement he played more than 200 rounds a year in Chicago and (2) my wife started playing when we were dating and also became a golf nut such that the traveling Jim notes has become a centerpiece of our vacations.


I am a very lucky man that because of golf I have spent countless hours in the world's most frustrating endeavor with my Father and my wife.


Ira

[Tommy Williamsen]

I ask myself that question from time to time. I have been having less fun on the course for years, and my declining skills are difficult to accept. Most of my enjoyment comes from playing new courses with good friends or nine holes alone in the evening.

[Rob Marshall]

I ask myself that question from time to time. I have been having less fun on the course for years, and my declining skills are difficult to accept. Most of my enjoyment comes from playing new courses with good friends or nine holes alone in the evening.

+1

[Ira Fishman]

Tommy and Rob,


One of the benefits of being at best a mediocre golfer is that the quality of my performance does not affect my enjoyment. On the other hand, I, unlike you, have never experienced the high that comes from playing great golf. I might trade with you, but will never know if that would be a good trade.


Ira

[Jim Hoak]

The only real negative I have with golf is a bad back caused by 75 years of rotation in the golf swing.  But, as I told my wife, I wouldn't trade a lifetime love-affair with golf for a healthy back.

[Rob Marshall]

Tommy and Rob,


One of the benefits of being at best a mediocre golfer is that the quality of my performance does not affect my enjoyment. On the other hand, I, unlike you, have never experienced the high that comes from playing great golf. I might trade with you, but will never know if that would be a good trade.


Ira

Ira,
I asked a top 100 teacher how I could learn to care less about what I shot. His response was that he was pretty sure if I cared less I would shoot higher.....I've got a lot of more free time these days so I keep working hard trying to "keep the old man out".....

[Craig Sweet]

I thought the saying was : "If it's not fun you're doing it wrong."

[Matt Schoolfield]

I have thought about it, and have three ideas:

Golf can be a hobby, and with all hobbies, burnout is real. If you're not ever missing golf, you might need a break.

Golf can be used for coping, as an escape from other issues. I could see this leading to golf not being fun.

Golf can be a regular thing with a group of friends, and sometimes you might need a break from the friends, not a break from the golf.

I try to keep the good craic as central in my golf game, but sometimes when I'm frustrated, I'll leave the clubs at home and hop on the bike for a couple weeks instead.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sorry to answer as someone who is "in da biz, but as a golfer, I think Jim nails it. 


Most studies on the subject say camaraderie is the key component to playing golf and enjoying it while shooting 90-100 or so.  I believe most golfers just want to shoot about their normal score (most courses).  The average golfer only makes 6 really good shots per round.  If they make less than that, we call them ex-golfers.  So, I think you have to get good enough to not embarrass yourself, but after that score is secondary.  Oh, the other factor golfers hate is losing golf balls (esp at $4+ per ball)


As I think I have alluded to before, over the last decade of my career I started making courses easier, realizing that perhaps the definition of great architecture is not being so challenging that you could win a US Open there or even have just a lot of tricky shots.  For most courses, I think designing something pretty but not too difficult is the perfect design theory, but I wonder if this generation of architects and owners is making the same mistake my generation did, designing for their own glory rather than looking at it mostly from the 90 shooter perspective.  The flip side of that is that it appears that owners almost often want something more exciting than the last course built in their area, which often translates into difficulty.


Just a pre-coffee opinion here, folks.  By noon I may feel differently, lol.

[Carl Johnson]

Wow!  At 82 I continue to play as much as I can because I enjoy it. Enjoy = fun.  There's getting out with friends, exercise (though minimal), fresh air and often sunshine, and the competition, which is always a form of match play.  It's a broader hobby than just playing.  When I took up golf about 30 years ago I decided to go whole hog for the rules, architecture, history, a little club involvement, competition.  I post for HC purposes, but except for the need to do that for competition, what I "shoot" is irrelevant.  I tried course rating (USGA slope/rating) with an area team, but found it not to my liking for reasons I will not go into.  Days of travel just for golf are over, but next week I hope to attend the Wells Fargo Championship, which is just outside my back door.  Honestly, I don't know how long I'll be able to play, but I right now I believe I will as long as I can.  I'll be stuck when I can't.

[Lou_Duran]

David T,


"Fun" is a very broad, overused word.  My rounds are seldom joyous, though enjoying fresh air, exercise, and fellowship keep me coming back even when my game doesn't measure up to my memory of how it once was.  Come to think of it, even at my best, golf was not all that much "fun", especially in competition.  Perhaps today playing is more out of habit, but I still look forward to my next round.  Acts of sportsmanship such as yours in our match in Ireland are indicative of the many fine people we interact with on the golf course and not a small part of why I'm still playing after a very long run.  Make sense?   

[Joe_Tucholski]

What does fun mean?  I don't think of golf as fun but I really enjoy it. 
1) It's something that I'll never perfect but I can always try to do better.  I'm fairly competitive and it's a competition with myself that I'll never win.  I've never had a round where every shot felt great and I hit every putt where I wanted.  Even on a good day there are shots that could have been better or putts I think I will make next time.
2) I appreciate the beautiful settings of many courses.
3) I don't really enjoy large groups of people where small talk bounces from person to person with no real meaning in the conversations.  Across 4 hours with 3 other people you're able to have a real conversation...and at the same time you can keep to yourself if you prefer.
4) As I age I figure it will provide an important amount of physical activity that the body can handle well into old age (I don't really think most of my workouts are fun now but it's also something that I feel is important). 

[Stewart Abramson]

What does fun mean?  I don't think of golf as fun but I really enjoy it. 
1) It's something that I'll never perfect but I can always try to do better.  I'm fairly competitive and it's a competition with myself that I'll never win.  I've never had a round where every shot felt great and I hit every putt where I wanted.  Even on a good day there are shots that could have been better or putts I think I will make next time.
2) I appreciate the beautiful settings of many courses.
3) I don't really enjoy large groups of people where small talk bounces from person to person with no real meaning in the conversations.  Across 4 hours with 3 other people you're able to have a real conversation...and at the same time you can keep to yourself if you prefer.
4) As I age I figure it will provide an important amount of physical activity that the body can handle well into old age (I don't really think most of my workouts are fun now but it's also something that I feel is important). 

Joe, I agree with everything you said in the above 4 bullet points. Where we differ is in your intro. I do think of all that as fun.

[cary lichtenstein]

This may sound strange, but frustration while playing Oakmont lead me to want to quit on the backnine.

[Peter Sayegh]

Curiosity time in relation to those not ‘in the golf business’.
Unless your having fun why do you continue to play golf? If it’s not fun why aren’t you doing something else?
Curious to know.

Atb

Golf has humbled me since I first started playing.
I no longer "compete" when I play-against my own expectations or my friends/partners.
First and only order I demand playing with friends is "We're gonna have fun."

As others have stated, meeting people and sharing a great day with them can be priceless.

I was paired with a married couple who are PCC members in February, on #4. 
She made two or three putts over 30 feet and he scored four consecutive birdies for the first time in his life.
I was slapping it around but I enjoyed watching them play so well.
I'll probably remember the round long after they do.
A little part of me tells me our mutual congeniality/encouragement led to their performance.
That feeling is tough to discover outside of golf.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Skiing is fun. I skied 61 days this year, and I enjoyed every day. I played 55 rounds of golf last year and enjoyed about ten of them. I play more out of habit. I enjoy my time at the short game practice area the most.

[Bruce Katona]

Professor Brauer:


1. The average player hitting 6 shots a round?  I do recall posting on here many times our golf professionals telling me " Bruce - if I can get my students to hit 3-4 good shots a round I have a client for the entire season!"


2. I'm loving that course design philosophy of "Looks Hard, Is Pretty; Plays Fair"  The average golfer/customer wants to brag to their buddies " I played XYZ Golf Course last week - you know the one.  Tees and greens were in great shape!  I had 4 pars and 4 putted 18 or I'd have broken 100/90".


That is kind of course you get repeat public play business at.

[jeffwarne]

Skiing is fun. I skied 61 days this year, and I enjoyed every day. I played 55 rounds of golf last year and enjoyed about ten of them. I play more out of habit. I enjoy my time at the short game practice area the most.

Now imagine every time you skiied that a Mountain Power ranger was in your head, keeping a running tab of your speed, amount of difficulty, style, form, turns, terrain, tricks, show off factor etc. ,constantly informing you that were the 838th ranked skiier on the slopes out of 2,411, and that you used to be the 23rd ranked skiier during that same exercise.


In golf, people tend to underrate their performance(fun) based on comparative score to experts.
When skiing, people tend to over rate their performance, based on no objective scoring criteria or comparison vs. experts.


I can't tell you many people tell me what great skiiers they are, with zero athletic skill at golf.
Very hard for me to imagine accompanying them on a back country or off piste skiing expedition, or a downhill race against experienced racers.(but we all compare our scores to pros in golf)
Gravity and grooming tend to make people exaggerate their ability.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Skiing is fun. I skied 61 days this year, and I enjoyed every day. I played 55 rounds of golf last year and enjoyed about ten of them. I play more out of habit. I enjoy my time at the short game practice area the most.

Now imagine every time you skiied that a Mountain Power ranger was in your head, keeping a running tab of your speed, amount of difficulty, style, form, turns, terrain, tricks, show off factor etc. ,constantly informing you that were the 838th ranked skiier on the slopes out of 2,411, and that you used to be the 23rd ranked skiier during that same exercise.


In golf, people tend to underrate their performance(fun) based on comparative score to experts.
When skiing, people tend to over rate their performance, based on no objective scoring criteria or comparison vs. experts.


I can't tell you many people tell me what great skiiers they are, with zero athletic skill at golf.
Very hard for me to imagine accompanying them on a back country or off piste skiing expedition, or a downhill race against experienced racers.(but we all compare our scores to pros in golf)
Gravity and grooming tend to make people exaggerate their ability.

Jeff, when I played the Bridge a couple of years ago, I had the most fun on the greens. They must have run at 14. Every putt was an adventure. I also had the most fun watching my 75-year-old buddy shoot his age that day. I still ski double blacks, just not as fast, but now I generally ski them with my son. Skiing them alone seems too risky. My most fun is going fast on a groomed run. I have to watch out for the ski patrol, but getting in the tuck on a deserted run at Peak Ten at Breck gets my blood pumping. For all the rule-keepers, I don't do it when there are others on the run.

[Rob Marshall]

"In golf, people tend to underrate their performance(fun) based on comparative score to experts.When skiing, people tend to over rate their performance, based on no objective scoring criteria or comparison vs. experts."




My performance fun level in golf is based on par not what the experts are shooting. Growing up in Western NY my skiing fun level was based on spending the day on the slopes with my father and my son.....and not getting hurt.


I've spent part of the winter driving across Alligator alley to take lessons from a coach in Palm Beach. That's been extremely fun for me. I'm sure not a lot fun for her.....

Tommy, maybe the fun is in the practice and hard work, not the occasional great round. That just keeps us coming back to the "Chopping wood and carrying water".

[Jeff_Brauer]

Professor Brauer:


1. The average player hitting 6 shots a round?  I do recall posting on here many times our golf professionals telling me " Bruce - if I can get my students to hit 3-4 good shots a round I have a client for the entire season!"


2. I'm loving that course design philosophy of "Looks Hard, Is Pretty; Plays Fair"  The average golfer/customer wants to brag to their buddies " I played XYZ Golf Course last week - you know the one.  Tees and greens were in great shape!  I had 4 pars and 4 putted 18 or I'd have broken 100/90".


That is kind of course you get repeat public play business at.

Bruce,


I have read that quote somewhere, but not going to look it up just to quibble on the internet.  4, 6, 8?  The point of both quotes is to remind architects and enthusiasts just how bad the average player it.  And, at some point, if they hit less than whatever that number is, they get frustrated and quit, which is the point of this topic, I think.

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