News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Lester_Bernham

Winds of change need to blow across golf
« on: December 06, 2003, 11:53:43 PM »
From todays The Age :

Winds of change need to blow across golf
By Mike Clayton
December 7, 2003

Peter Thomson wrote in The Age yesterday of his dismay at the modern player's inability to pitch the ball low through the typically high winds that we encounter in Melbourne at tournament time.

"There are, of course, ways of keeping one's approaches from climbing so high. One way is to take a club with less loft and hit it gently. Either this is not taught by modern coaching or else players are scared to try it," he wrote.

Of course, he is right. In my view, over the past five years, technology has advanced far beyond the imagination of the inactive legislators who have sat by and watched the professional game alter beyond recognition.

One of the major advancements has been the production of a ball that flies through wind with more efficiency than ever before. Players no longer have to learn to knock the ball down with less club and a softer swing because they have never experienced hitting one of the old softer-covered balls that really wanted to climb up into the wind. Nor have they ever hit a ball with a wooden driver, where controlling trajectory was vital into the wind. Peter was the master of judging the direction and trajectory of his shots, but the new balls have made that a non-essential skill simply because they have been engineered to spin less and, as a result, fly easily through the wind.

Everyone in the professional game agrees there is a problem with how far the ball is flying. No one who cares for the game or the intent of the original architects wants to see Ernie Els hitting a driver and an eight iron to the ninth of the Composite Course at Royal Melbourne, as he did earlier this year, or Steve Allan driving the fourth at Huntingdale, which he astonishingly did in the opening round this week.

The other cause for dismay is the state of the golf courses that professionals venture to all over the world. In America, players are fed a diet of soft, over-watered, predictable and fair golf courses that has sanitised the game to a point where players and teachers only have to develop one-dimensional games based around smashing the ball miles and putting. Australia is one of the few places in the world where the best courses are still the tournament venues. Royal Melbourne might be the only great course, outside of the major championships, that still has a professional event, and it still stands up despite all the modern technology.

It does so because the greens and their approaches are firm and fast, and there are any number of intriguingly difficult short shots to hit around the greens. Great design will always hold up, but there doesn't seem to be much of it on the professional tours of the world. It's a pity and it makes for a more boring game to watch.

That leads to the other debate of the week, raised by Steve Elkington and Rich Beem, bemoaning the power of the American tour and the stay-at-home attitude it breeds among the players. The insularity of the leading Americans was threatening to ruin the game, argued Elkington, because it based the golf world in one country, choking the life out of the other tours with the assumption it was the only place to play professional golf. If money is a major motivator, then it is clearly the place to play, thanks in part to Tiger Woods and the increased television money that has poured into the game.

The US tour has always been the biggest and its players have, for years, claimed themselves to be the world's best - and not without justification. Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Watson and, latterly, Woods were the best in the game, although Watson's significant challengers and successors were foreigners - Ballesteros, Norman and Faldo.

What Americans have never thought about - because they never had to - is how they would handle playing golf all over the world in the same way the tennis players do, where no one has a home-ground advantage for long. In golf, Americans can eat at McDonald's every night, watch their own sport on the television, drive on the right and generally feel very comfortable each week.

They have never realised the advantage it gives them over foreigners away from home, in an unfamiliar culture, which, to the amazement of some Americans, is not one they necessarily enjoy.

If the golf tour was structured like tennis, with major championships and significant tournaments spread across the globe, it would be a more interesting game. Players would have to learn to adapt to a variety of conditions, perhaps even learn to impress Thomson with a few little knock-down four irons.

The custodians of the game, who seem to deny there is a problem with the equipment, also need to do something about introducing a professional ball onto the tour that plays more like the balls of a couple of decades ago. I only wish those who deny the problem had been on the fourth tee at Huntingdale on Thursday morning to see Allan's mighty swipe. That may have opened a few closed minds.


Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2003, 03:09:12 AM »
When I first tried the Pro V1, I was astounded at how far I was hitting it into a strong wind, and how easy it was to keep it from curving.  I knew then that the days of trying to control trajectory (and mostly failing) off the tee were over for me, I just hit them all the same height regardless of the wind.  There is still some effect off the irons, but it is certainly dimished.  The funny thing is that with today's large headed drivers, controlling trajectory off the tee would be much easier than before, were I to be so inclined.

My hope is that when (please, don't say "if") they decide to do something about the ball, they also make it larger.  Aside from easily being able to tell whether someone is playing a ball conformant to the new rules or not, making it larger without changing the weight will cause the wind to have a greater effect upon it, bringing back that element of the game.!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

ForkaB

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2003, 03:11:09 AM »
Thanks, Lester

Excellent article by Mike.

Of the two sections of the article, the 2nd (on rolling back the ball) is the strongest.  The first one, about a "World Tour," is on shakier ground.

The tennis analogy doesn't really work because top-level tennis is played by young people (17-33) who retire about the time that (most) golfers begin to reach their peak.  When golfers are reaching their peak, they are also beginning to raise families and (mostly) don't want to live the life of a "golf bum."  Also, tennis is and has never been a mass spectator sport (outside of the "majors").  No way you could get the crowds you get at the Phoenix (golf) Open at the Phoenix (tennis) Open, so it means far less, economically, where a tennis tournament is played than it does a golf tournament.  In fact an all-USA tennis tour just wouldn't work--not enough money to attract the best players in the world (who are largely non-American).

The Australian (and European) tours are in trouble now, but that is mostly to do with ambitions that exceed their conditions.  No way you are going to get a sustainable world-class 40-week tour in either place give the lack of population in the former and lack of primary demand in the latter (ever see the crowds at non-"British" Open ET events?).  The Japan tour survives (with limited ambitions) because it has the population base and the primary demand to sustain it.

Strong regional tours (look at soccer/football as an analogy) is a much better business model for golf than the "world tour" concept, IMHO.

PS--what sort of hole is that 4th at Huntingdale?

rgkeller

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2003, 09:20:10 AM »
Anyone who measures the state of the game by the health of various professional tours has no idea what the game is about.

ian

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2003, 09:49:32 AM »
Lester,

Thanks, that was a great article, with many great points about the ball and ever evolving (or declining) game.

Rgkeller,

 If the tour fails to capture yound people's interest, they move on to other sports that capture there attention. Skateboarding, for example, is back in a huge way, because of the X games. Whether you like it, or not, professional sport matters. Tennis's decline in participation has a lot to do with the game changing from a shot-making game to one where the serve absolutely dominates the game. Each point is similar and short. Golf has lost the artistry for consistatncy. Consistancy may score, but it does not entertain. I'm not into watching a tournyment essentially decided by who can out putt who. Its dull.
 

rgkeller

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2003, 10:04:53 AM »
Well, I'd rather play than watch, but that's just me.

I do not measure the state of the game by the numbers of participants attempting to emulate their professional heros.

Golf architects, golf writers, golf equipment manufacturers, golf apparel companies, golf magazine owners, for profit golf course owners and real estate developers have a decided interest in expanding the number of participants and their catering to the golf professional tours in an attempt to market their products has done much to hurt the game and nothing to enhance it.


ian

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2003, 10:11:39 AM »
Rgkeller,

Yes we do, but the players also have a vested interest in promoting the game. The old guard understood this, the new crop does not. We will pay for their attitude too.

As for how does it affect you, expect a lot fewer new courses in the game goes into decline. Is that a bad thing for you, you tell me?

rgkeller

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2003, 10:28:58 AM »
The number of golf courses continues to increase as the number of rounds declines - fueled primarily by real estate developers taking advantage of the ridiculous premiums that mediocore golf courses bestow on the surrounding housing lots.

If there were never another golf real estate course built, it would have no impact on me at all and, I am confident, little on anyone else except the afore listed types who make their living from golf.

In the "golden age" of golf and golf course architecture, golf professionals were considered largely unneccesary. They serve no higher purpose today.

Would that we could return to those days when golf was meant to be played and cherished and when golf clubs were formed and courses built to attract golfers rather than dollars.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 10:30:29 AM by rgkeller »

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2003, 10:36:27 AM »
There is a better way to control distance than making the ball larger.  

This has been discussed before but from an engineering standpoint, the distance a golf ball travels is governed by the amount of lift that ball generates against the air.  A spinning ball generates lift and stability for the most part because of of the interaction of the dimples with the air.  If Tiger Woods using a driver smashed a dimpleless (quasi-inviscid) Pro V1, it would go about 150yds and wobble like a nuckleball.  

All a governing body would need to do to control distance is limit the depth of the dimpling (I'm talking some thousandths of an inch here).  Less deep dimpling = shorter distances.  It is as simple as that.

JC

A_Clay_Man

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2003, 10:50:58 AM »
Ian- There's a dycotomy, while the numbers of rounds have decreased or stayed static over the last 5-10 years and the owner/operator has to keep up with Joneses, with no hope in sight for any cost reductions, the amount of bling$ poured into the top players bank accounts has risen exponentially. The notion that the two games are the same or in some way connected is probably not how the owner/operator feels looking at his bank statement.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2003, 10:59:54 AM »
Doug-

I find the opposite is true about the ProV.  When I hit it into the wind, it is shorter and more prone to whatever spin I had on it than my former ball of choice, the Strata.  Like so much enhanced performance equipment and balls, I think that for most of us, the optimized results are more perceptual than real.  I do find that the ProV in conjuction with the K driver are a potent combination when you hit it on the nose.  Unfortunately, most of us hit the sweet spot about once per round so, while the effects are memorable, the overall impact on our game is not.

Ian and rg-

Do you think that the senior guys in general really care that much about the future of the game, or do you think that perhaps they are more interested in maintaining a nice lifestyle until they depart from this world?  I haven't heard of Hogan extending out a helping hand to upcoming players.  I know that some of these guys treated foreign players like carpetbaggers.  An acquaintance who played on the Senior Tour a few years after it started told me how poorly he was treated by many of the "regulars".  Try approaching Trevino when he is not in his element.  If for no other reason than self-interest, today's pros seem to go out of their way to promote the game more.

As one who has lost much of his interest in the pro game outside of the majors, I am not sure that what the pros are doing will have that big of an impact on the future of the game, at least in the US.

There are what, 25-30MM golfers here, and our population is aging.  Golf is a game that can be played with some level of skill well into old age.  The over-supply of courses may be bad for the owner and lender classes in the industry, but it is a boon for consumers.  In most areas of the country, there is more high quality golf available to more people today than ever before.  Through eBay and other resellers, equipment is inexpensive in relative terms (even my video store is selling good experienced balls, including an occasional ProV for 25 cents).  Books and videos on instruction, fitness, and psychology are available for a pittance.  Through various charitable organizations, golf equipment and instruction is available for next to nothing to many juniors.

Yes, we have those damned carts that some 60-70% of rounds are played on.  A very few number of players hit the ball too far, and perhaps are receiving a disproportionate amount of attention from the architects and developers.  And yes, way too much water is being poured on the courses.  To the chagrin of many on this site, some memberships are altering their classical courses (a practice which didn't just begin with the birth of Fazio and the Joneses).  But overall, I would argue that the condition of the game of golf is relatively healthy and positioned for even greater heights.

     

rgkeller

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2003, 01:02:05 PM »
Except for the professional golfers that are architects, I don't believe any of the seniors among them care one bit about "the game."

And those professionals in the prime of their ball striking careers are almost entirely interested in what the game gives to them.

I do not begrudge the professionals their life stlyles or their attitudes. The damage to the game is being done by those who believe that the professionals ARE the game and design their golf courses, their clubs, and their marketing strategies around the glorification of these professsionals.

And by the ruling bodies that are afraid to confront those with financial interests in golf.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 04:37:41 PM by rgkeller »

tonyt

Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2003, 04:34:55 PM »
Rich,

#4 at Huntingdale is a dogleg right par 4, with fairway bunkers straight ahead through the cut grass. In the late 80s, it was a 3 wood for most pros, followed by a 6-8 iron. The really long hitters hit 1-2 iron.

Now, everyone can hit driver to the green (still over very mature trees), but not everyone does. 4 iron to the corner, then 7-9 iron in for most. The green used to be more of a raised pimple, but is now a larger sprawling mass. Not a bad green, but unfortunately, provides no side from which one would desperately hope to avoid with the aggressive play.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Winds of change need to blow across golf
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2003, 05:12:52 PM »
Brining this one back to the top.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter