How far should bunkers be off the tee?

[Rob Marshall]

How do you determine how far to place bunkers off the tee?


At my club all the fairway bunkers are 230 to 240 off the tee. The young guys don't even see them. They are all in the wheelhouse of the good seniors at my club.

[Ally Mcintosh]

One of my pet peeves is bunkers placed at consistent distances from the tees.


They should be placed where they fit naturally in to a landscape feature AND can be built in to some strategy for the designed hole in question. Where there is no natural feature, bunkers should be varied in distances to provide challenges to different qualities of players in different wind conditions. A bunker at 300 yards can provide the same challenge as one at 220 yards for the same player dependent on wind and ground conditions.


With a lot of current links renovations, it is amazing to see how often bunkers are being placed at 260 yards on fade side with another at 290 yards on draw side. It has a sniff of designing to standard without an understanding of individual site or playfulness, not to mention different types of players.

[Tom_Doak]

Anywhere and everywhere in between 220 yards and 320 yards from the back tee makes sense, depending on the hole. 


As Ally says, the only real mistake is to consistently use the same distance(s).  Even if they're "right" now, they'll be wrong in twenty years, but good golfers hit the ball all different sorts of distances, so you don't want to keep punishing the same guy.

[Rob Marshall]

Anywhere and everywhere in between 220 yards and 320 yards from the back tee makes sense, depending on the hole. 


As Ally says, the only real mistake is to consistently use the same distance(s).  Even if they're "right" now, they'll be wrong in twenty years, but good golfers hit the ball all different sorts of distances, so you don't want to keep punishing the same guy.

Thanks Tom, that’s what I thought.

[Jim_Coleman]

   If you’re doing a “restoration,” should they be placed where they were when the course was built, or where they make sense today?

[Joe_Tucholski]

How do you determine how far to place bunkers off the tee?


At my club all the fairway bunkers are 230 to 240 off the tee. The young guys don't even see them. They are all in the wheelhouse of the good seniors at my club.

Rob do you only have one set of tees?


I just looked at the RTJ course I play most often from the one up tees.  The range to the front of the fairway bunkers is 180-260 with an average of 230.  The carry range of the last fairway bunker is 210-285 with an average of 255.  Those distances don't take elevation into play or doglegs.

[Tom_Doak]

   If you’re doing a “restoration,” should they be placed where they were when the course was built, or where they make sense today?

If you're doing a Restoration, then you should put them where the original architect put them.


If you're doing a "restoration," then you put them wherever you want.

[Jim_Coleman]

   If you’re doing a “restoration,” should they be placed where they were when the course was built, or where they make sense today?



If you're doing a Restoration, then you should put them where the original architect put them.


If you're doing a "restoration," then you put them wherever you want.



   If you’re interviewing for a project, do you explain the difference between a restoration and a Restoration, and do you give examples of both?

[Carl Johnson]

Not an architect, but from what I've learned here (GCA), you put them where there is a reason to put them.  Edit.  Where there is a good reason to put them, of which there are many.  The most important in my opinion is strategic.  The least is probably aesthetic (except from an advertising standpoint -- how they look in arial shots for magazine ads -- if the designer thinks or is told that is critical to the success of the course.)  A few others. Framing. Aim points. Deception. Saving errant shots from oblivion.  I'm ignoring the big R vs. little r issues.

[Mark_Fine]

Rob,
The simple answer to your question is “how far did your original designer of the golf course want them off the tee (and why)!”  If you find out the answer to that question you will have your answer.

Carl and others,
There is always a “reason” to do or justify almost anything and it is no different when it comes to GCA.  When we do a “Restoration” or a “restoration”, we for example put drainage in the bunkers (even though there was none originally there to start), if we replace trees they will likely be a different size maybe even a different type than what was originally planted, it is also likely any new grasses will be of a different variety as well as the choice of sand for the bunkers, cart paths might be added or removed depending on the course’s needs, fairway drainage and retention areas could be necessary due to surrounding off course development/hard scape that all now drains water onto the golf course requiring the water to be better managed, there might be original ponds on the course that are now used for irrigation (something else the original course likely didn’t have) that needs to be modified/maybe enlarged,… the list goes on and there is usually good “reason” for all of this. 

We have debated what is and isn’t “Restortion/restoration” forever on this site and I have come to the point that there will never be complete agreement.  If it is clear what an original architect intended for example for a bunker from a strategy standpoint and that intention is now gone or diminished, are you doing “Restoration or restoration” when you put it back exactly where it was?  Did you “Restore/restore” what he or she originally designed?  It is not always easy but I believe “Restoration” of a golf course is more than just restoring the physical aspects of the design. 

[Jim Sherma]

... It is not always easy but I believe “Restoration” of a golf course is more than just restoring the physical aspects of the design. 

Mark - I think this gets to the heart of the ongoing Restoration/restoration conversation. Namely, what is it that you are restoring? The original design as built or an assessment of the challenges that the original design was meant to present to the players. If the game could ever get some consensus on equipment that allowed a game that is scaled similar to when these courses were built the answers become the same.

[Rob Marshall]

How do you determine how far to place bunkers off the tee?


At my club all the fairway bunkers are 230 to 240 off the tee. The young guys don't even see them. They are all in the wheelhouse of the good seniors at my club.

Rob do you only have one set of tees?


I just looked at the RTJ course I play most often from the one up tees.  The range to the front of the fairway bunkers is 180-260 with an average of 230.  The carry range of the last fairway bunker is 210-285 with an average of 255.  Those distances don't take elevation into play or doglegs.

Joe, we have two sets of tees for Men. 6400 and 6700 par 71. Most of the back tees are only a 10 to 15 yard difference. The three holes with the biggest difference in yardage have no fairway bunkers.

[Jim_Coleman]

   A piece of art should be Restored to be admired; a golf course should be restored to be played upon.

[Rick Sides]

This makes for an interesting question. In my years working at courses and caddying I have come to two solid conclusions … 1. Most men do not hit the ball off the tee as far as they think 2. Most men play tees too far back . When you take there two variables into consideration it usually means the majority of people don’t often find fairway bunkers unless they are massive or large waste areas