The Battle for LA - Riviera vs. LACC - Match Play - FINAL

[PCCraig]

#12


LACC


As the 11th plays steeply downhill toward a barranca, the 12th turns you around and marches you back up hill. The tee shot makes this WBYC guy feel right at home as it plays uphill, and blind, over a giant knob. Once over the hill, the golfer is greeted with an intimidating approach shot to a green heavily guarded by deep bunkers. The pin position of the day greatly influences the angle off the tee for most golfers.


*Photos of this hole are borrowed from Linksgems, who has a photo tour posted on the Geeked on Golf Website













RIVIERA


The 12th plays SW with the canyon wall to the players left. The idea tee shot on this mid-length par-4 is left center as that will allow the player a clean angle to most pins. With trouble left though, many players must guide their ball down the right side of the hole. The approach on the 12th is beautiful. It plays over a barranca, features a deep bunker short right, and the stately Humphry Bogart tree on the left. 







While the 12th at LACC is a fine hole and one that should challenge the Pro's next year with some tucked pins, the approach shot on the 12th at Riviera is so special that I think it gets the nod in a one-on-one match.


MATCH


ALL SQUARE THROUGH 12

[PCCraig]

#13


RIVIERA


While the 12th at Riviera favors a fade off the tee, the 13th almost requires a draw as the hole doglegs to the left around some massive trees. The trees block the barranca on the left and its unclear why they remain other than perhaps to force PGA Tour golfers to play a certain type of shot off the tee. There is a bunker about 50 yards short and right...the only bunker on the hole. A fine hole but perhaps not Riviera's finest in its current shape. Certainly the hole would benefit from cutting the trees on the left and having the play be to hug the barranca as much as possible off the tee to get the best angle into a green that slopes right to left?








LACC


The 13th at LACC also a mid-to-long par-4. The tee shot here is very strategic and dictated by the land. The carry to the fairway plateau is much shorter if the player goes down the right, however the approach must then carry some mean looking bunkers to get to the putting surface. If the player can carry the left side, they are rewarded with a open route to the green, one where the shot can be run up via the ground game on this firm golf course. While putting, you'll hear a bunch of squawking from the Playboy Mansion's birds...located just behind the hedge in the photos below!










The 13th at LACC is a very strong hole and in their current form(s), I think takes the prize for the better 13th of the two.


MATCH

LACC - 1up through 13

[PCCraig]

#14




LACC


The 13th green surrounds flow nicely into the 14th tee, just steps away. The 14th is a long par-5 that runs along a ridge that has a steeper & steeper drop off on the right side of the hole the closer you get to the putting surface. The player can choose to make the hole play shorter by hugging the right side, but the drop off an numerous bunkers come into play. Further, the approach to the green is certainly less scary coming in from the right side. A more conservative player can play down the left side of the ample fairway, but will leave a tricky 3rd shot. The green is a beautiful one and sits right on the edge of the ridge and features a number of humps & bumps leading to some smaller targets for those looking for a birdie. A wonderful hole.








RIVIERA


The 14th at Riviera is a medium length par-3. A fine hole but in the grand scheme of these two great courses a more pedestrian hole. It sits on flat land and is dominated by large bunkers short left and right. The green slopes mostly back to front. A strong hole that would fit on most "championship" golf courses, but this one sticks out as compared to the rest of the spectacular par-3's at Riviera.







MATCH

LACC - 2 UP through 14

[PCCraig]

#15


LACC


After the brawny 14th, the player is presented with the puckish short par-3 15th. The hole played just 78 (!!) yards for the Walker Cup matches, but can stretch back to as much as ~130 yards. The green is a giant skinny horseshoe wrapped around a mean pot-esque bunker in the middle. Situated on somewhat flat land, the slightly elevated green sits at eyelevel which makes the shot all that more intimidating. A wonderful capstone to an all-world set of par-3's.


[size=78%]








RIVIERA


The 15th at Riviera is a lovely mid-length par-4 that sits on flat land, pretty much in the middle of the canyon that the course sits in. It doglegs right around a deep and nasty fairway bunker which dictates strategy off the tee. However where the hole shines is in the spectacular green complex which sits high front left, then dips, then rises again in the back right.











Both terrific holes with great greens, I would call this a tie.


MATCH

LACC - 2 UP THRU 15.[/size]

[PCCraig]

Any predictions for the remainder of the match?

[V. Kmetz]

I've mentioned that I've never seen LACC, but Rivs 16th 17th and 18th are a great trio of holes... really sweetens the end of the round and the memorability of what you played... indeed, on those holes, you also revisit and passby the most fun area of the round (4-6) and by 17 green/18 tee have beautiful vistas over 3,9 and 10.


As for your acct of the match, you're entitled, but I repeat #s 1 and 2 were not fairly matched. Those are appealing, interesting and memorable holes at Riv. Should have been even through 2.


Since then, you've been much more even-handed, imo; continues to be a worthy tour.

[Adam G]

Riv has to win 18. LACC should win 17. 16 is a close call.

[Brent Carlson]

Any predictions for the remainder of the match?

Pat,


Here's my guess:


- 16 halved
- 17 LA wins
- 18 Riv wins


I'm enjoying this tour of two great courses.

[Matt_Cohn]

I was extremely fortunate to play in the George C. Thomas tournament at LACC last week. As a side note, here are the changes I noticed in advance of the US Open:


1. Fairway narrowed on both sides.
6. Rough brought in short-right of green.
8. Layup area narrowed dramatically.
10. Rough grown over fairway bunkers—can't blast long-right towards 16 fairway.
12. Fairway narrowed significantly.
13. Fairway widened 10-12 yards on left side. There was only about 15 yards of fairway where the ball would stay up on top—fine if the left rough is no big deal, but not fair with US Open rough there. Now there is 25 yards of fairway the ball will actually stay in (and another 25 it won't).
14. Fairway narrowed significantly on left side. This will be a difficult tee shot to get in the fairway.
16. Modest narrowing but more having to do with #10.
18. Left ~20 yards of fairway converted to rough. Hole now plays out to the right as a big dogleg left, an awkward tee shot. Rough also grown farther towards green on left side so players can't drive past it.


More relevant to this thread, I go back and forth on certain holes at LACC vs. Riviera; for me, Riviera usually comes out about 1 up, ±1 hole depending on the day. But LACC captures my imagination more and resides in my top 3 courses I've played. I think there are two reasons for that. One is that I've always had a strong affinity for holes that play very differently depending on the hole location. LACC has more of those simply because its greens are generally larger, and although both courses have some interesting green shapes, LACC has a few more (which means the target areas are still small; also, I say this having played LACC with tournament hole locations and Riviera with daily play ones).


Second, although both courses are beautiful, LACC is clearly more visually stunning than Riviera. I think it's just a reality that we play a very visual sport. The restoration at LACC made the course better in many ways, but visually was one of them. For example, the shot required on the 4th hole didn't really change when it went from this:



To this:



...but I know which one gets me more excited. And 8 changed a little, but given these two photos from basically the same spot:


vs.



...there's no question that the hole got way cooler, even if the shots required are basically the same. So when Tommy Naccarato creates images of #6 at Riviera showing now:


vs. after a proposed renovation:


...I think my experience of LACC is proof enough for me that this would make a huge difference in how a feel about Riviera as a whole vs. doing a hole-by-hole exercise. I love Riviera; it's in my top handful of courses I've played. But I have LACC ranked a step higher, possibly my #1, and I think the difference between the two courses is almost entirely visual and presentation rather than in the quality of the architecture.

[Adam G]

Matt -
Very interesting changes. I can't say i'm surprised by any of the narrowing, but find it a bit sad.
I was surprised not to see anything about #17. As I recall during the Walker Cup everyone played up 2. I figured they would have to do something to prevent that, but don't see anything that you listed. Did they add some trees or otherwise change the corridor between 2 and 17?
I'm also wondering about spectator access and flow to the course and especially to shared corridors like 1/18, 2/17, 10/16, 13/14 tee areas. Did you hear anything about where spectators will enter, where the merchandise tents and corporate tents will be, and whether spectators will bet between 1 and 18, 2 and 17, etc.?
Adam

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt -
Very interesting changes. I can't say i'm surprised by any of the narrowing, but find it a bit sad.
I was surprised not to see anything about #17. As I recall during the Walker Cup everyone played up 2. I figured they would have to do something to prevent that, but don't see anything that you listed. Did they add some trees or otherwise change the corridor between 2 and 17?
I'm also wondering about spectator access and flow to the course and especially to shared corridors like 1/18, 2/17, 10/16, 13/14 tee areas. Did you hear anything about where spectators will enter, where the merchandise tents and corporate tents will be, and whether spectators will bet between 1 and 18, 2 and 17, etc.?
Adam

Looking at it now, on Google Maps 2 and 17 are conjoined fairways, but they are now separate. The rough was especially thick between those fairways last week, but I assume the whole course will be like that next summer. Interestingly, with the new 18th fairway, some players played 18 up #1!


I didn't hear anything about those other details, but I imagine that like Merion the emphasis will be on getting spectators into grandstands. It seems like a tough place to get people around—lots of squeeze points. I'm sure most of the tents will be on 1-2 and 17-18 of the South along with the space between 12, 13, and 14.

[PCCraig]

After a brief rain delay    we're onto the 16th...


LACC


The 16th at LACC is a long two shot hole with a back tee stretching the hole to over 500 yards, with a fall off hillside left off the tee and another on the right closer to the green. Tee shots hugging the left hazard off the tee are rewarded with an approach that does not have to carry a long cross bunker short of the green. The hole sits on a beautiful piece of rolling ground and demands two strong shots to reach the putting surface in regulation.





RIVIERA


The 16th at Riviera is a beautiful mid-length par-3, in particular during the golden hour as the below photos were taken. The green is very severely sloped back to front, with a player wanting to keep below the hole for a decent chance at a birdie and a lower chance of a 3-putt. However a deep and intimidating bunker sits short of the green waiting for weakly hit tee balls.








Both holes are solid, but relatively straightforward from a strategic standpoint. However, I would give the slight nod to the 16th at Riviera due to it's stunning setting and fun factor due to it's severe green & bunkering.


MATCH


LACC - 1UP thru 16

[PCCraig]

As we begin the lead up to the 2023 US Open in two weeks, I thought I would finish this match... 


LACC


The 17th at LACC is stunningly beautiful, yet strategic, 450 yard par-4. The hole's primary strategy is to hug the barranca on the right to allow for the best angle into the very narrow green.








RIVIERA


The 17th at Riviera is a longer par-5 which climbs ever so slightly uphill, or at least it feels that way this late in the round. it is one of the most heavily bunkered holes on the course, which requires the player to navigate between them on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd shots.





While a very fine hole, I would argue the 17th at Riviera does not stack up to one of LACC's finest and (admittedly) scenic holes.


MATCH


LACC - 2UP thru 17

[William_G]

Love this!
thank you

[David Kelly]

With the exception of #8, #17 at Riviera is probably more in need of a restoration than any other hole out there.

[Tom Birkert]

This thread is wonderful and bringing back lots of memories.


I really hope they get it as firm and fast as the Members want it to be in a couple of weeks. It might end up being the nearest comparison to Royal Melbourne given the width and need to be in the right position to attack pins.


I was blown away by the work done to Riviera when I went last year. It was so much better than when I'd last been (late 2000s). My understanding is that they are seen as a suitable host for a US Open in the future and the club desires that. There's not been an announcement yet though but it's a relatively open secret from what I understand.

[Kalen Braley]

Terrific thread.

As an FYI, I have a Practice Round ticket to Monday at LACC that I won't be using.  Free to the first one interested, please PM me.

Thanks!

Kalen

[Ben Stephens]

Terrific thread.

As an FYI, I have a Practice Round ticket to Monday at LACC that I won't be using.  Free to the first one interested, please PM me.

Thanks!

Kalen

Damn I would have taken it if lived near 

[Kalen Braley]

Terrific thread.

As an FYI, I have a Practice Round ticket to Monday at LACC that I won't be using.  Free to the first one interested, please PM me.

Thanks!

Kalen

Damn I would have taken it if lived near 

Its still on the table if there is any interest.  My preference is to give it away to a tree house architect nerd.. 

[PCCraig]

A quick note of appreciation for the wonderfully cool "little 17" at LACC. The green sits to the right of the 17th green, at the base of the barranca. If play allows, you can drop a ball in the fairway between 2 and 17 and play a ~120 yard shot to little 17, a very penal but beautiful hole:

[PCCraig]

Happy US Open week. On to the home hole!


LACC


The 18th at LACC tees off just steps from the 1st green and plays back along the same corridor toward the clubhouse. The hole bends gently to the left around two large bunkers...one just off the tee and one greenside. The playing corridor is massive and gives the impression of a great lawn. Generally the strategy is to hit your tee ball into the right area of the giant field to give yourself the best angle into that day's pin. Behind the green sits the beautiful white clubhouse.





RIVIERA


The home hole at Riviera is perhaps its most famous thanks to their hosting an annual PGA Tour event. The tee shot is epic...uphill & blind over a 30ft tall ridge. The second shot is again uphill and toward a green that sits within its famous amphitheater. After playing the previous 17 challenging holes, the 18th is quite a tough two shots to close the round. The clubhouse looms over the hole as you play it.








LACC's 18th is a fine hole and should make for a picturesque setting for the final hole of a US Open, however the 18th at Riviera is an epic finishing hole.


MATCH


LACC wins 1UP



Final thoughts thoughts to follow. But curious to hear where others opinions would differ.