Dye in Bloomfield, CT

[rpurd]

Walked the new Dye course in CT today.....Wintonbury Hills.......what a routing.  I love Dye courses and he did a very good job on this site.  The course fits the rolling hills very well.......the fairways have grown in and the greens are almost ready for the public (I believe they had an owners outing on Monday).......hopefully we can get out there in the next few weeks.....it looks to be quite a test.

[Brad Klein]

Tee times available as of Monday, Sept. 22, through (860) 242-1401. Course is par 70, 6,623 yards from back, with 97 feet of elevation change, easily walkable, only two very short forced carries on tee shots and very natural. Many holes are wide open, a few trees backdrop greens or frame fairways, but playing areas are generous. There's only one conifer on the entire course!

Municipal facility, with preview rates at $30-$50, optional cart included. Course design credit goes to Pete Dye and Tim Liddy. I'll post an article with full photos as soon as Tommy Naccarato can scan and upload my slides.

[Mike_Sweeney]

http://nejg.onecityinternet.com/ct/index.php

More information.

Hey Brad, turn off the sprinklers !!

[Jim Sweeney]

Brad Klein:

For the price of planefare and a green fee, I'll bring the chainsaw and remove that connifer.

Congratulations on the opening. Hopefully I can get there next summer.

Jim

[Bye]

How much time did Pete spend on site?

[John Foley]

Had the plasure to play Wintonbury Hills last week on a glorious September day. Dye & Liddy did great job on the site and really put together a memorable course. As I played the course I kept reminding myself this is a muni, not a great private course or a new high-end public/resort course. To live in Bloomfield, CT and get a crack at that one everyday would be very special.

There are some very memorable holes. I loved 4 & 5 as a tough par 5 & driveable par 4 combo. 8 is a very nice 3 shotter. Loved the bunker complex in the center of the 11th fairway. 12 is a great downhill mid length par 3 w/ some interesting contours on the green. Then the strech from 13-15 is just brutal and 16-18 being no let up either.

I loved the way some of the sidehills (fairway & green on 14, green on 4 especially) contours make for interesting shot-making. On the downside (and there are very very few) some distance between 10 & 18 is needed, they are much too close. The par 3's on the front we're a little too benign, # 3 seems shoehorned in.

One last note. The conditioning for a course open it's first week was absolutely incredible!!!!!!

[A_Clay_Man]

Congrats!

And to Brad, you now have real hero status. What is it 1.2 or 2.3 miles from your house?

Perhaps you can briefly touch on some of the provisions that may be set in place to make sure that Wintonbury Hills doesn't go the way of some of the Muni's I'm familar with, as it relates to the long-term viability of the course and that proceeds and profits stay in house? Enterprise fund? Hiring and paying well, a quality superintendant?

It sounds like they did the golf right, I just hope and pray they do the business, with the same ethic and diligence.

Mahzel Tov, la shanna tova

amc

[Brad Klein]

Adam, I'm involved right now in writing something about how municipalities can safeguard their golf - will publish it and then try to make it real in Bloomfield as we move forward with the management structure (Billy Casper Golf).

During the 8 years of design and development of Wintonbury GC, Pete Dye made 10 visits, as I recall, to town, including two days during construction in July 2002 when the fine feature shaping got underway. Pete was closely involved with his right hand man, Tim Liddy, in working out the routing over the years. Tim was on the site 2-3 times a year 1997-2001 and about 25 times from late 2001 through completion of growin this late summer.

The first tee is 3.2 miles from my side (kitchen) door.  

[John_Conley]

Congratulations, Brad!

I am very excited about the birth of your youngest and most overdue child.  "Labor" understates it!

Birdies and Sunshine (and a late fall of golf),
JOHN

[Dunlop_White]

Brad,

Congratulations! I hope to see it and/or play it someday.

Tommy, perhaps you could re-post the image here of Brad learning the skills of a shaper.....I believe he was photographed on a backhoe, looking rather lost I must add.

Seriously though, through the years, Brad has worn the "hats" of a variety of people, all integrally associated with golf architecture including, but not limited to, columnists, editors, arborists, course consultants, and restoration conspiritors. He's the superintendent of Superintendent News, a Dr., a rater, and a green commiteeman too, I believe.

My question is did you have any significant realizations while working as a shaper or architect? More importantly, did your perceptions of them change while working as one?

[Brad Klein]

Dunlop, thanks for the note. I could and might write a little book about all of this. The basic lesson I learned is that for all of the theory, strategy, great holes, classical principles stuff, the basic process of design and build is guided by problem solving and puzzling through small solutions that work in a larger, coherent framework. Most of what passes for criticism overlooks this. I know as a result I've become a better writer. We'll see if it helps in other areas as well.

Please don't mispalce responsibility for the golf course, though. I helped out a lot (!) over the years with background, budget, politics and tweaking, but it's a Dye-Liddy routing and a Dye-Liddy design.

[George Pazin]

Dunlop, thanks for the note. I could and might write a little book about all of this. The basic lesson I learned is that for all of the theory, strategy, great holes, classical principles stuff, the basic process of design and build is guided by problem solving and puzzling through small solutions that work in a larger, coherent framework. Most of what passes for criticism overlooks this. I know as a result I've become a better writer. We'll see if it helps in other areas as well.

Consider this a vote in favor of the book - you've got at least one sale guaranteed.

I look forward to getting out there someday.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sounds like a strong candidate to be Rustic Canyon for 2003 (GD Best New Affordable).  Does the September opening fall in the right window to qualify or will it be in the pool of candidates for 2004?

I hope that Tim (Liddy) gets his name on it for the publications to get the notoriety he seems to deserve.  Don't know if The Trophy Club was on any Best New lists or not.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Just found out on my own.  Liddy has had his name in 4 GD Best New designs!  

1995:  Rock Hollow, Peru, IN  #8 BN Public.

1998:  The Fort, Indianapolis (w/Dye), #3 BN Affordable

1999:  Trophy Club, Lebanon, IN, #4 BN Upscale

2001:  Avalon Lakes, Warren, OH (w/Dye) #8 BN Upscale

Here's to #5 (and a winner this time?)

[Mike Nuzzo]

Brad,
Congratulations.
I had the pleasure of playing yesterday.  I got some lucky weather and had a great day that far north...

Wintonbury Hills:
Very good course, definately worth a game.
And for a muni one of the best I've seen.
2-7 was a very good, fun stretch of holes.  I liked number 3 especially the green.  Huge fairways, I only missed 2?  Very good banked fairways allowed for safe play and some challenging sidehill lies (above and below my feet).  Very fun greens.  If you wanted a little more bite on the front you can play #6 from the forward #3 tee, making it around 440.  Same with playing 13 from the 17th tee.  2 from the 8th tee would be tough??  Easy to maintain bunkers, and there were quite a few.  I'd have liked to have seen more bunkers in the driving zones, and as a muni it works great without them.  
It had hints of Steamshovel Banks and Oakmont.
Greg the super is a very good man as well, and doing a great job.

All you noreasterners would be a bunch of weenies if you don't plan at least one small outing there next year.

[Dan_Callahan]

I played Wintonbury last week (day before Thanksgiving). Despite the bitter cold (our shots to the green on the first hole bounced like they had hit asphalt—there was still a layer of ice beneath the surface), I loved the course. I only had two complaints: First, the power lines running through the center of the layout are an eyesore, but I guess there isn't much they could do about it. They really are a blemish on the long par 3 seventh hole, which is otherwise spectacular. Also, the 18th hole was as boring as any finishing hole I've played—really a surprise after the terrific routing that precedes it. As a municipal, the design cleary has heavy traffic and high-handicap golfers in mind. The fairways are extremely generous with massive banks that tend to throw errant tee shots back into play. The greens are the real treat here. Some are massive, with wild undulations. Although I played on a cold, wet day, it was clear that there were places you simply couldn't go on the green and expect to two putt. Very, very enjoyable. (By the way, the sand in the bunkers is the best I've ever seen at a municipal—probably because the course is so new. Let's hope it stays that way.)

I also heard an interesting story while I was there: Initially, there was a different site for the course. One Bloomfield resident threw up all kinds of environmental roadblocks that delayed construction for a period of years. The new site, although dramatic, cost the town $4-5 million dollars extra to develop because it was so much rockier than the original site. Guess the taxpayers really wanted this course.