[Matt_Cohn]

As best I can count from the course tour on its website, Traditions Club in Texas (A&M's course) includes 15 holes where you hit over a creek at some point. Surely this number (or a similar number of holes playing over water) can't be topped?

[Tom_Doak]

As best I can count from the course tour on its website, Traditions Club in Texas (A&M's course) includes 15 holes where you hit over a creek at some point. Surely this number (or a similar number of holes playing over water) can't be topped?

Are they artificial creeks?


A lot of states would not let you do this, or the golf course would be unplayable due to 50-foot buffers on either side of the creek making 50- to 70-yard forced carries for the women.  I guess the rules are more lax in Texas, though.

[Matt_Cohn]

They seem natural:

[Sam Morrow]

It's a natural creek, I think it's named Turkey Creek. Par 3's on the front are very good. The 4's and 5's all feel like you're playing the same basic hole over the creek.


The public course on campus at A&M is much better.

[Steve Lang]

   MAtt,


When the design 1 hour storm is 2.73 inches, its nice to have a drainage creek(s) close by... but yes it does get a bit repetitive... never seen more.

[Joe Bausch]

It is not 15, but a creek is played over many times at White Clay Creek near Wilmington, DE.

[Rob Marshall]

As best I can count from the course tour on its website, Traditions Club in Texas (A&M's course) includes 15 holes where you hit over a creek at some point. Surely this number (or a similar number of holes playing over water) can't be topped?

Are they artificial creeks?


A lot of states would not let you do this, or the golf course would be unplayable due to 50-foot buffers on either side of the creek making 50- to 70-yard forced carries for the women.  I guess the rules are more lax in Texas, though.

Why Tom? Contamination from fertilizer?

[Steve Lang]

   Seems like a not so subtle dig at TX's TCEQ, thankfully they're not MI DNR... but the SE TX heavy clay gumbo soil definitely not like glacial sand and we don't have many spring fed trout streams around here...

[A.G._Crockett]

The Club at 12 Oaks, and private Nicklaus in Holly Springs, NC, near Raleigh.  It is routed through a high end subdivision, so...

16 holes where either a creek, a pond, or wetlands are in play.  It is an odd course in that on many of holes the farther up you play it, the more you bring the water into play.  I've played several senior tournaments there (so very short yardages), and though it is always in great condition, I won't go back; just isn't much fun to stand on almost every tee and do a math problem to figure out the correct layup club.

[Steve Lang]

The Club at 12 Oaks, and private Nicklaus in Holly Springs, NC, near Raleigh.  It is routed through a high end subdivision, so...

16 holes where either a creek, a pond, or wetlands are in play.  It is an odd course in that on many of holes the farther up you play it, the more you bring the water into play.  I've played several senior tournaments there (so very short yardages), and though it is always in great condition, I won't go back; just isn't much fun to stand on almost every tee and do a math problem to figure out the correct layup club.

Sorry A.G., I can't resist asking whether it's the math or geometry problem or counting how many balls are left in the bag?  I thought more hazard the farther up you go was a desirable design feature to thwart the big hitters?


Holiday Cheers

[A.G._Crockett]

The Club at 12 Oaks, and private Nicklaus in Holly Springs, NC, near Raleigh.  It is routed through a high end subdivision, so...

16 holes where either a creek, a pond, or wetlands are in play.  It is an odd course in that on many of holes the farther up you play it, the more you bring the water into play.  I've played several senior tournaments there (so very short yardages), and though it is always in great condition, I won't go back; just isn't much fun to stand on almost every tee and do a math problem to figure out the correct layup club.

Sorry A.G., I can't resist asking whether it's the math or geometry problem or counting how many balls are left in the bag?  I thought more hazard the farther up you go was a desirable design feature to thwart the big hitters?


Holiday Cheers

Steve,
Math/Geometry, 100%.  I only play 12 Oaks in tournament play, and the whole deal there is to avoid penalty strokes caused by hitting it too far off the tee. I’ve never seen anyone run out of golf balls in a tournament.


You may have misunderstood what I wrote about “farther up”.  I was referring to the tees you are playing from, not how far you hit it off the back tees.  At 12 Oaks, the ubiquitous water is MORE in play from the shorter tees in senior tournaments; long hitters playing from the tips have fewer layup tee shots.  You’ll have to take my word for that.  12 Oaks is over 7000 yds from the tips; we played it at around 5600. 

[Steve Lang]

   A.G.


Gotcha,


Best for 2023

[Scott Warren]

11 holes at Old Town Club in North Carolina play over a creek (1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 17, 18) and two more (14 & 15) play long one with it very much in play.


Not quite 15/18 but a pretty significant amount in its own right.

[Sean_A]

11 holes at Old Town Club in North Carolina play over a creek (1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 17, 18) and two more (14 & 15) play long one with it very much in play.


Not quite 15/18 but a pretty significant amount in its own right.

Old Town is remarkable because it doesn't feel like water is that prominent. Of course, on some of the holes the water isn't significant. I recall being surprised when I saw an aerial.

Merry Christmas

[Tim Gavrich]

One of the things I loved about Wilshire CC is how the creek (barranca?) is a main character of the golf course.

[Tom_Doak]

This recalls Mr. and Mrs. Dye's description of the first course they built on their own -- El Dorado.  A good friend of theirs remarked that he had never seen a creek come into play 13 times . . . on a nine-hole golf course!

[SL_Solow]

I still have nightmares about a long range plan submitted at Briarwood by a future President of the ASGCA before I was a member.  Our 1921 Alison design had one water feature when built  and an additional retention pond for the irrigation.  The  proposed plan had water on 14 holes consisting of ponds and interconnecting streams.  Fortunately, it was never implemented.

[Scott Warren]

11 holes at Old Town Club in North Carolina play over a creek (1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 17, 18) and two more (14 & 15) play long one with it very much in play.


Not quite 15/18 but a pretty significant amount in its own right.

Old Town is remarkable because it doesn't feel like water is that prominent. Of course, some on of the holes the water isn't significant. I recall being surprised when I saw an aerial.

Merry Christmas

Agree. It’s only 4, 8, 11, 14, 15, 17 that I would call the water in play. Maybe 12 as well.


Enough that the creek is a really strong, interesting feature of the course but not enough that it’s overkill.

[Alex Miller]

One of the things I loved about Wilshire CC is how the creek (barranca?) is a main character of the golf course.

parentheses indicate holes which I have seen multiple balls in the water, others regularly have it in play


(1), 3, 4, 5, (6), 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18


So 13 in total, 11 very much in play! Proud(?) to say I have found the hazard on all of them over the course of many many rounds 

[Alex Miller]

And since this isn't the first time I have seen Wilshire and Old Town on the same thread regarding the prominence of the creek/barranca here is a great podcast comparing/contrasting the two. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/house-theory-thursday-episode-2-wilshire-cc-vs-old-town-club/id1583596139?i=1000546495791  I have not played Old Town, but like Wilshire I think it is not overkill, but rather a prominent part of the property that is well featured.

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