Wisconsin - The New Golf Mecca?

[Thomas Dai]

Out of curiosity how many months of the year would WI golf resorts typically be closed for?
atb

[Tom_Doak]

I get why people like Raynor courses, but the idea that every Raynor course should be in the running for top 100 in the USA is ridiculous.

Should someone say that, I would totally agree. 

Jeff:


I know you didn't say that, but that's the sum total of how people think. 


How many Raynor courses have you seen?  Most people have only seen a few of them, and think those are the special ones and tout their own faves for the top 100.  But it can't work like that in aggregate.  The "hidden gems" like Blue Mound are less special when you factor in all their close cousins, and even less special when you have to compare them to NGLA, Yale, Fishers Island and the like.


Blue Mound does have a really neat set of greens that sets it apart from the "B list", but I'm not sure that would put it in the top 100.  If you said it's a 7 on my scale, that's probably fair -- I don't remember whether I gave it a 7 or a 6 -- but that would leave it competing with a ton of other courses for the last spots on a U.S. top 100 list.

[Tom_Doak]

Out of curiosity how many months of the year would WI golf resorts typically be closed for?

The season is April through October.  The resorts usually close earlier than private clubs because it's a strictly cash operation and the numbers will insist on a date when it's unprofitable to stay open.  For a membership you have to live with some unprofitable days.


It's weird to me but seems to be true that the Wisconsin courses can open 3-4 weeks earlier than here in Northern Michigan, but we have better weather in the second half of October.  That's the effect of Lake Michigan -- it stays cooler in the spring and summer because the lake is still chilly, but then stays warmer in the fall because the lake has heated up.

[Sean_A]

I get why people like Raynor courses, but the idea that every Raynor course should be in the running for top 100 in the USA is ridiculous.


Blue Mound adds variety to Wisconsin as a destination, no doubt about that.  Just like Old Mac does for Bandon.

Tom

Are you saying that there are so many Raynors which are closely matched in quality thats is whacky to have 10 or 15 on the list?

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

I get why people like Raynor courses, but the idea that every Raynor course should be in the running for top 100 in the USA is ridiculous.

Should someone say that, I would totally agree. 

Jeff:


I know you didn't say that, but that's the sum total of how people think. 


How many Raynor courses have you seen?  Most people have only seen a few of them, and think those are the special ones and tout their own faves for the top 100.  But it can't work like that in aggregate.  The "hidden gems" like Blue Mound are less special when you factor in all their close cousins, and even less special when you have to compare them to NGLA, Yale, Fishers Island and the like.


Blue Mound does have a really neat set of greens that sets it apart from the "B list", but I'm not sure that would put it in the top 100.  If you said it's a 7 on my scale, that's probably fair -- I don't remember whether I gave it a 7 or a 6 -- but that would leave it competing with a ton of other courses for the last spots on a U.S. top 100 list.

I hear you Tom. I know that just saying a course is designed by XYZ architect is many times a cut to the chase credential to respect. We are a little more persnickety here and rightly so, as it is a passion for some and at least a hobby for most.
Seeing as Raynor and Macdonald worked so closely together, I went to the Seth Raynor society website for his list. Have to admit I haven't ever heard of at least 12 or so from the 50 they say he designed or redesigned (7 are NLE I also learned). I see that I have played 9. Many are left to play.

In reference to BM, two things stand out to me.  Well actually three, come to think of it.

• First are the greens which are the star as the course is not overly difficult, or long but the greens are very good.
• Second are the amount of uphill/downhill shots. Compared to Shoreacres for example, which is on flat land with a ravine running through and we all love, BM adds more undulations to the layout. This makes the uphill par 4's for example very stout! Prevailing wind adds to that as well.
• Lastly, BM has taken great care of their course and reclaimed greens, managed their trees and even were adding some tee boxes when I was there this past summer. It is polished.  Although I know they have a few things the club would like to do (Jerry Rossi can chime in), it is pretty close to optimal probably now.

I'd say it is a polished gem and only hidden by those who haven't gone to see it. I have no problem with a 7, but I have it as an 8. Outside of the big hitters (Fishers, Chicago, etc.) I think BM is right there with Yale, Fox Chapel, Charleston etc.

[Thomas Dai]

Out of curiosity how many months of the year would WI golf resorts typically be closed for?

The season is April through October.  The resorts usually close earlier than private clubs because it's a strictly cash operation and the numbers will insist on a date when it's unprofitable to stay open.  For a membership you have to live with some unprofitable days.
It's weird to me but seems to be true that the Wisconsin courses can open 3-4 weeks earlier than here in Northern Michigan, but we have better weather in the second half of October.  That's the effect of Lake Michigan -- it stays cooler in the spring and summer because the lake is still chilly, but then stays warmer in the fall because the lake has heated up.

Thanks for this Tom.
It amazes me that places, not just golf but all sorts of places and businesses, can continue to operate for years, decades even, without income for 5 months per year. Ok labour costs are likely reduced for a period, although where the main season staff work in the off-season is a question in its own right, but there must be all sorts of fixed costs that can’t be reduced. Guess they have have to charge enough for their product whatever it may be during the seven months they are open to cover the whole twelve months they exist. You’d like to think that twelve month places and businesses should be able to charge less for the same seven months. Not sure they do though. And then something like Covid comes along and plays havoc with the usual seven month season.
Atb

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks for this Tom.
It amazes me that places, not just golf but all sorts of places and businesses, can continue to operate for years, decades even, without income for 5 months per year. Ok labour costs are likely reduced for a period, although where the main season staff work in the off-season is a question in its own right, but there must be all sorts of fixed costs that can’t be reduced. Guess they have have to charge enough for their product whatever it may be during the seven months they are open to cover the whole twelve months they exist. You’d like to think that twelve month places and businesses should be able to charge less for the same seven months. Not sure they do though. And then something like Covid comes along and plays havoc with the usual seven month season.

Labor laws are somewhat different in America . . . it is much easier to hire seasonal staff and then let them go, although in a lot of seasonal places [like The Hamptons, not Wisconsin] affordable housing for the staff is hard to come by.


But, it costs almost the same to build the golf course and the clubhouse and all the buildings associated with the facility, and you have a much shorter season in which to make a return on that investment.