Maximum Architectural Contrast in Real Time

[James Brown]

I was so blessed to play what in my experience has been the widest possible range of architectural styles over the past two weeks.


Last week, I was in Michigan on business and played:


Pilgrim’s Run
The Loop (black)
Detroit Golf Club


And then this week with my first (very, very grateful) trip to Scotland in two long years to play:


Gullane #2
North Berwick
Elie
Dornoch(x4)
Brora
Tain
Castle Stuart


What struck me was the amazing contrast of different forms of golf.  Pilgrim’s Run is a great example of modern, fun-oriented cart golf.  The Loop is an aggressive, innovative experiment in the modern ground game.  Detroit Golf Club is a great snapshot of an average PGA Tour venue.  Gullane #2 was the classic “B course” that most overlook but was pure fun start to finish.  North Berwick is classic, amazing, and quirky.  Elie is an incredible example of a links course with great variety and a deceptive scorecard.  Dornoch is a refined world-class links that’s hard and beautiful and fun.  Brora is a historically preserved pure links.  Tain is the ultimate town links with a low budget and great conditions over varied topography.  And Castle Stuart is a modern-day manufactured Scottish course geared to American golf tourists. 


It was really informative to see all of these courses in succession and to really have fresh impressions of the range of golf architecture I experienced.  I count myself lucky, lucky, lucky. 

[Mark_Fine]

Good for you.  I have been saying that on this site for a long time.  The variety of the playing fields is what makes this game so special.  If designs were only like the ones many on this site rave about (as good as they are) the game would be much less interesting. 

[Niall C]

The Loop - aggressive ? How so ?


Niall

[David_Tepper]

James -

I wish you could have played Golspie, another very different course to round out a golf trip to the Highlands.

DT

[Mike_Trenham]

Adare Manor vs Lahinch

[Tim Gavrich]

For me, playing SentryWorld and Sand Valley (original) consecutively is about as different as things get, at least in close proximity.


Of course later this month I'll play Pinehurst No. 9 and then No. 2, which will be quite a contrast as well.

[James Brown]

The Loop - aggressive ? How so ?


Niall

I played the Black course and I thought 4-5 greens were very, very severe.

[James Brown]

James -

I wish you could have played Golspie, another very different course to round out a golf trip to the Highlands.

DT

I’ve played Golspie before and liked it but am not a huge fan, mainly because I thought those holed around the turn were just too cramped for my taste.  Would play Brora over Golspie about 8/10 times. 

[Tom_Doak]

I played the Black course and I thought 4-5 greens were very, very severe.

I've got two greens there as "very severe" -- Black 6 and 16.  Maybe also Black 3, if you don't play safely to the left half.  What are the others? 


It is of course a matter of opinion, I get that.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Well I’m going to be able to see for myself in 6 weeks time with The Loop. Can’t wait.

[David Kelly]

The Donald Ross Course and the Pete Dye Course at the French Lick resort are about as diametrically opposed as two courses at the same resort can be.

[JohnVDB]

Back in 1999, just before this website opened for business a group of us from a previous site gathered for an outing in Pinehurst.  One day we played Tobacco Road in the morning and Mid-Pines in the afternoon. It was quite the contrast.


It was later in that trip while I was working the NCAA Division 2 championships in Valdosta, GA ther Ran’s brother John told me about this new site they were creating.

[James Brown]

I played the Black course and I thought 4-5 greens were very, very severe.

I've got two greens there as "very severe" -- Black 6 and 16.  Maybe also Black 3, if you don't play safely to the left half.  What are the others? 


It is of course a matter of opinion, I get that.

What I mean here by “severe” is when I look at the green and chuckle and smile because I think it will take a miracle.


Granted, it was a first play and 90+ degrees with a strong breeze and what seemed like rock hard conditions. 


Number three was pretty aggressive but didn’t see it as as “too” severe because there was a run up on the left to a front center pin.


Number 4 green had a back left pin and I drove down the right and had 75 yards and landed it on the flat section just over the bunker and it still bounced off right and long. 


Number 6 was very sloped but had plenty of room to pay into it.


I thought 13 green was just too much going on for a shot that long.  The [size=78%]flag was back left just over a ridge and I hit it pin high right and had a putt that I don’t think it was possible to get near the hole.  [/size]


I thought 16 was really severe and just thought the back shelf was just too small and not worth the risk. 


I have no sympathy for all the whiners that mindlessly hit at flags with short irons on this course and go long, I just feel like “the line” on this course is gonna be drawn where you always have a couple of shots where you have to let Jesus take the wheel even with a good shot from the right spot.  Maybe that can’t be avoided if it’s gonna be reversible, but I think that’s gonna limit the appeal accordingly.

[Peter Pallotta]

Not quite what the OP was asking for, but:
The first time I drove to Michigan I played The Mines, by Mike Devries. The next time I drove to Michigan I played Crystal Downs, by Dr Mac. Upon reflection, it was like listening to solos by Louis Armstrong and Wynton Marsalis -- both worthy and enjoyable in their own way, but one clearly the antecedent and inspiration for the other, with what flowed out and was invented organically and moment by moment by the former being carefully studied for years and interpreted and re-envisioned by the latter. If Crystal Downs is the 'text', The Mines is the 'textbook'.

[Tom_Doak]

I thought 13 green was just too much going on for a shot that long.  The flag was back left just over a ridge and I hit it pin high right and had a putt that I don’t think it was possible to get near the hole.

Well, it’s a long par-3 playing uphill to a green that mostly falls away from you, so yes it’s a very hard shot.  But I don’t remember the green having any impossible putts once you get there.  I have not played there for a couple of years, so maybe I’m misremembering.

[Kalen Braley]

This may need clarification because I've only played one green in my entire life that I would call very severe, in Pasatiempo #16

But then again I fall in the camp of just because you're on the green doesn't mean you're entitled to a 2 putt, or even an easy 3 putt (which also happened once when I was woefully out of position on a different green)

[James Brown]

This may need clarification because I've only played one green in my entire life that I would call very severe, in Pasatiempo #16

But then again I fall in the camp of just because you're on the green doesn't mean you're entitled to a 2 putt, or even an easy 3 putt (which also happened once when I was woefully out of position on a different green)

I certainly wouldn’t equate “severe” or “very severe” with bad or uninteresting at all.  Some (maybe most) of the most interesting holes have severe features. 


The point I was trying to make was that it seems to be a reality that on a modern reversible course that strives to have interesting greens with a lot of movement that you will have several holes that were really meant to be played from a different direction and therefore are somewhat of a turn off and don’t quite work as well.  I think we could also call this quirk if we wanted to.  I personally like it this way, I just think they will be a turn off to many on a modern course, even if they are an attraction at North Berwick or Elie because they are “old” and “Scottish”

[Kalen Braley]

This may need clarification because I've only played one green in my entire life that I would call very severe, in Pasatiempo #16

But then again I fall in the camp of just because you're on the green doesn't mean you're entitled to a 2 putt, or even an easy 3 putt (which also happened once when I was woefully out of position on a different green)

I certainly wouldn’t equate “severe” or “very severe” with bad or uninteresting at all.  Some (maybe most) of the most interesting holes have severe features. 

The point I was trying to make was that it seems to be a reality that on a modern reversible course that strives to have interesting greens with a lot of movement that you will have several holes that were really meant to be played from a different direction and therefore are somewhat of a turn off and don’t quite work as well.  I think we could also call this quirk if we wanted to.  I personally like it this way, I just think they will be a turn off to many on a modern course, even if they are an attraction at North Berwick or Elie because they are “old” and “Scottish”

And to clarify, I never intended to imply they were bad or uninteresting either! 

I fall in an outlier group that thinks most are not anywhere near severe enough, and thoroughly enjoy playing wild greens.  But with the pursuit of endless stimp speeds, its very unlikely that cat is going back in the bag.

[John Mayhugh]

In my first trip to Ireland, I played the K Club in between rounds at Baltray and The Island. I would call that contrasting.