James Braid and Donald Ross - how do they compare?

[Jerry Kluger]

I am not trying to argue who was the better architect rather I am trying to see how their designs stack up today and how much they have survived as originally designed.  I am far more familiar with Ross designs so I have seen how many just haven't survived that well while others still play the way they were originally designed to be played. The pro at Hope Valley in NC told me that during their restoration they had to soften the greens because their members wanted green speeds which would just not work on the original greens. I don't believe that C & C did much to #2 outside of its original design while Hanse made some big changes to #4. What's been done with the Braid courses?

[Adam Lawrence]

I've always felt that the better comparison was Ross and Colt. Both really brought great golf en masse to their respective countries. If you're on a course you don't know in Britain and you think it is really rather good, pound to a penny it's a Colt course. I have the impression that the same is true in America with Ross, or at least it was until Americans got serious about course architecture in the last twenty or thirty years.

[ward peyronnin]

This is a very general impression and subject to being discounted but is it admissable that Braid's work exhibits more creativity and variety than the very solid work of Ross? I am thinking Perranporth to Brora and I have never played Ross courses of that kind of nature.
I understand your question Jerry is probably a recognition of the breadth geographically and client commission each enjoyed.

[Niall C]

Adam,


That comment re Colt may hold true south of the border but in Scotland I think Colt's work is few and far between while Braid seems to have been everywhere, and to great affect (or is it effect ?).


Jerry


I really don't know too much about Ross to go in depth on any comparison but the fact that they were both pro's and quite prolific with their design work would be something they had in common. When we look at the ODG in the UK we tend to place the "gifted amateurs" like Colt, MacKenzie, Simpson, Fowler, Abercromby etc over Braid and it is true that perhaps some of their courses are more revered than Braids but I think that is partly to do with him not getting a sniff at the posh clubs that had a higher profile and the snobbery of the time. Darwin, who was a wonderful writer but also a terrific snob, did more than anyone to eulogise Colt etc but when he wrote Braid's biography you felt any praise he gave was almost grudging and had to be qualified in some way.


Did Ross get the same treatment in America ? No idea.


Braid's routings have tended to hold up well which can't always be said about MacKenzie for instance who even though he was a doctor wasn't too hot on health & safety. What we don't tend to think of with Braid (or is it just me ?) is the artistic side of things. Braid could do frilly edged bunkers with capes poking out of the face as well as undulating greens. There was a thread a while back asking which NLE courses you wish you had seen and for me it is the 2nd course at Turnberry that Braid redesigned in the early 1920's. Photos I've seen of that look fantastic.


Niall   

[David_Tepper]

Jerry -

My understanding is two characteristics of Braid courses are 1) par-3's pointing in all 4 directions of the compass and 2) a combination of short and long par-4's.

Goslpie & Brora are good examples of that. The par-3's do rotate around the compass and most of the par-4's are either under 350 yards or over 400 yards.

DT

[Jerry Kluger]

Perhaps it is because Ross was so prolific that we have seen some courses stand up over time while others have been changed during their restoration and others have barely any of their original design remaining today. Ross is so highly regarded today that some of his not so great designs are coveted today.  I don't believe that courses in the UK have seen nearly as much money spent or changes made so we see those courses as they were originally were when the opened.

[Sean_A]

I've always felt that the better comparison was Ross and Colt. Both really brought great golf en masse to their respective countries. If you're on a course you don't know in Britain and you think it is really rather good, pound to a penny it's a Colt course. I have the impression that the same is true in America with Ross, or at least it was until Americans got serious about course architecture in the last twenty or thirty years.

I tend to agree. The two seem to route their courses in a similar manner and sometimes get a creative with their greens...a bit of flair, but no to the degree of Dr Mac. I guess Braid was similar in that his designs were generally functional. When Braid was given an exceptional site he produced exceptional courses. In this way Braid was no different from Colt and Ross.

Ciao