[Tom_Doak]

If Al Stanger were alive today, I'm 100% certain he'd say he's glad he didn't follow the formulas mentioned here when he picked a designer for Wolf Point. 

Regrettably there aren't a lot of Al's out there.

Since you mention it, were you a part of the project already at that point, or did Mike bring you in?  Since he hadn't built a course before, I can't imagine Al would have been confident in him without seeing someone else with construction experience as part of the team.


I did get the job at High Pointe before Tom Mead was involved, but I knew enough to tell the client we needed to hire an experienced superintendent at the beginning of the project, and use him to help me with project management.

[Mike Nuzzo]

If Al Stanger were alive today, I'm 100% certain he'd say he's glad he didn't follow the formulas mentioned here when he picked a designer for Wolf Point. 

Regrettably there aren't a lot of Al's out there.

Since you mention it, were you a part of the project already at that point, or did Mike bring you in?  Since he hadn't built a course before, I can't imagine Al would have been confident in him without seeing someone else with construction experience as part of the team.


I did get the job at High Pointe before Tom Mead was involved, but I knew enough to tell the client we needed to hire an experienced superintendent at the beginning of the project, and use him to help me with project management.

Al found my website and called (this is after 5 years of my experiences helping everyone I could (green still, but not young)).
He handed me a retainer after our first lunch.
I recommended we find a superintendent not long after.
He told me he read a book that suggested getting the superintendent after the course was finished.
I asked what book! and said no, don't read that anymore.


Don was someone who clearly loved architecture and had all of his experiences - ownership, construction, irrigation... - I reread every one of Don's past posts here before I told Al who he should hire - (I miss that feature).


Months later, after we digested Al's big picture for the course, it seemed appropriate to be conservative with Al's money and have a good contractor involved. The contractor was a friend and his budget was open book based on hourly rates of his employees, equipment, and materials.


Driving home from our daily lunch, where Al always had a double or two, Al said the contractor's hourly rates are much higher than what pays his oil field services operators and he owns the equipment. Can we do it with his guys or mostly with his guys?
I looked at Don to check with him, his eyes almost fell out of his head while shaking yes (I'm exaggerating but it was a definite yes from Don), and we told Al yes.


Over the next several weeks Don explained to Al how it would work and Al said if we get in trouble we can always add help.
Don didn't need much help from the golf course to the airport.

[Ally Mcintosh]

On the other hand, if you are using examples of Kyle Phillips at Kingsbarns or Gil Hanse at Castle Stuart, then absolutely. These guys were very experienced when hired for those jobs.

That's a weird example, because I had the distinct sense that Mark Parsinen hired both Kyle and Gil because they were at a point in their careers where they would leverage the opportunity to advance their careers . . . but also couldn't afford to lose the opportunity, so they'd yield to whatever Mark wanted.


I guess, really, a lot of times that is what is going to get a young architect his big break, though . . . because the client wants to exert more control, and he doesn't think the established guys will yield to him.

I hadn’t thought about that leverage point where owners want to exert control. But that definitely makes sense.


But these two guys had loads of experience when they were hired for those two projects. They just weren’t that well established under their own names. If that level of experience is what we are talking about on this thread, then yeah - I expect we’ll continue to see plenty of these kind of hires.

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