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Steve Salmen

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OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« on: June 18, 2021, 10:32:12 AM »
Could golf become a victim in our seamlessly never ending war on established institutions?  I've been having a discussion with a friend of mine lately, and my biggest fear was reading this article and knowing there are people with golf in the crosshairs.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golf-exist-180113219.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2021, 10:59:35 AM »
While I think we need to be vigilant, like the old Bill Clinton situation room, where they countered every negative story, perception, complaint as quickly as possible to keep the narrative somewhat in control, there has always been this sentiment out there.


Back in the 1990s, when the environmental movement was in full swing, there were lots of calls to eliminate golf and golf courses then.  George Carlin did a bit (heard it again yesterday on Sirus Comedy Channel) that proposed converting golf courses to homeless shelters and low cost housing.


As I have mentioned before, the 1974 edition of World Atlas of Golf, which is the first one, I think, contains a forward by Allister Cook (?) decrying the end of golf, postulating golfers would have to form secret societies to talk about the "glorious old days" when they were allowed to play golf.  The enemy in that case was the revision to the tax code limiting write offs for club memberships, and it was taken that the government was waging a war on golf.  We all thought golf was on the decline, but the 1980's proved us wrong.


So, be wary, but also be confident.  Sort of like, "I trust Mom, but if we're playing for money, I cut the cards."  Or, as my old mentor was fond of saying, "Golf has been going strong for over 500 years, I think it will keep going."  He said that in response to my first day on the job musings that I might not be able to complete a full career in golf architecture.  Well, at 66, even if I still do a bit of work, I can say that I did manage to muddle through. ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

MCirba

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 11:06:14 AM »
Institutions are most often attacked when they no longer suit society's purposes in the natural order of things.


The market demand always has and will drive the future of golf, I suspect.  Even communist countries in Asia cannot contain its spread.




"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Thomas Dai

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2021, 11:27:57 AM »
It’s one thing to be criticised by those outside the game irrespective of whether or not they be knowledgeable or just out to make a noise or a political or otherwise point.
It’s quite another to shoot yourself in the foot.
And golf and the powers that be within the game are pretty good at the latter and don’t seem very quick to learn lessons either.
Atb

Jeff Evagues

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 01:45:27 PM »
"Golf courses and cemeteries - biggest wastes of real estate"  Al Czervik
Be the ball

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 01:48:18 PM »
I will add that all of civilization and life is about the balance of individual rights vs. the so called public good.  Opinions vary of course, but I believe the slow, long term trend is towards the public good, as far as govt and public opinions go.  That trend is slow, but there are occasional spikes up, and this is one of those periods.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Scott Warren

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 07:33:09 PM »

If golf wants to see the end of coordinated attacks on its existence, it needs to focus more on its social license and think about its contribution to the communities that surround the courses.


Public golf in Australia is very much under attack, and what is perhaps most concerning is that almost all the top courses in Sydney are on government-owned land under long-term leases.


Eventually, that ends one way.

Jim_Coleman

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2021, 08:10:50 PM »
   This is hardly a new development.  A 100+ year old anonymous poem:
   
   The golf links lie so near the mill
   That almost every day
   The laboring children can look out
   And see the men at play.

Mike Sweeney

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2021, 08:35:01 PM »

If golf wants to see the end of coordinated attacks on its existence, it needs to focus more on its social license and think about its contribution to the communities that surround the courses.


Golf has been a fabulous vehicle for me and my family to raise a bunch of $$$ for Autism charities over the years. In the Big Picture of golf, I stink. My biggest claim to fame is a Top 25 in the Philly Catholic League Championships.


Golf is literally a great sport for society, and show me another sport that raises money like golf?
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2021, 01:46:18 AM »
When I visited South Africa thirty years ago, the old guard were seriously afraid that a democratically elected government would confiscate the land from country clubs to build housing for the poor.  But if anything golf has boomed in South Africa since then.


Does any publisher worry if The Bible is going to keep selling?  It might go through some ups and downs but it is still a steady seller.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2021, 03:15:10 AM »
If golf wants to see the end of coordinated attacks on its existence, it needs to focus more on its social license and think about its contribution to the communities that surround the courses.
Public golf in Australia is very much under attack, and what is perhaps most concerning is that almost all the top courses in Sydney are on government-owned land under long-term leases.
Eventually, that ends one way.
Golf, like other things, needs to keep its own house in order, in balance. Aspects like land and water usage. We live on a finite planet with finite resources. When golf became popular 100+ yrs ago the population of the world was circa 1.5 billion. It's now close to 8 billion. Thats a lot of mouths to feed, water required and a bunch of housing/infrastructure etc needed.
Golf needs to get it's own house in order with regard to the resources it uses coz if it doesn't someone from outside who may not have any time for the game, may even hate the game, is likely to force conditions on the game. Better for golf to get it's own house in order itself than have an outsider force restrictions on the game.
atb

Jeff Schley

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2021, 11:16:43 AM »
If golf wants to see the end of coordinated attacks on its existence, it needs to focus more on its social license and think about its contribution to the communities that surround the courses.
Public golf in Australia is very much under attack, and what is perhaps most concerning is that almost all the top courses in Sydney are on government-owned land under long-term leases.
Eventually, that ends one way.
Golf, like other things, needs to keep its own house in order, in balance. Aspects like land and water usage. We live on a finite planet with finite resources. When golf became popular 100+ yrs ago the population of the world was circa 1.5 billion. It's now close to 8 billion. Thats a lot of mouths to feed, water required and a bunch of housing/infrastructure etc needed.
Golf needs to get it's own house in order with regard to the resources it uses coz if it doesn't someone from outside who may not have any time for the game, may even hate the game, is likely to force conditions on the game. Better for golf to get it's own house in order itself than have an outsider force restrictions on the game.
atb


Thomas, while I acknowledge most of our energy consumption is from non-renewable resources I think almost 80% or so, we have a plethora of renewable energy sources as well, all constantly being improved via innovation which is needed. Also air, water, plants, wood, etc. are not finite but go thought their cycle. So while we are exhausting our finite resources, I’m more optimistic about the future. Golf, while recreation we all enjoy will have to adjust to align with sustainability and I suspect that would consist of some attrition.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2021, 11:44:16 AM »
Jeff, I hear you but from a world population of 1.5 billion to near 8 billion and ever increasing in circa 120 yrs and likely 99.99% of them don’t give a rats backside about golf but they do want to eat and drink etc. Different folks, different priorities. Mind, those herein have been up and down this discussion road a few times before.
Atb
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 12:11:08 PM by Thomas Dai »

Lou_Duran

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2021, 12:52:12 PM »
Golf does not have a problem that's solvable by the bromides offered here and elsewhere for years.  Once we conquer envy and the necessary biases it requires for people so captured by it to be able to function from day-to-day, we will then have the solution for golf and a host of other sources of discontent.  Of course, as probably the most damaging of the seven deadly sins and the bedrock for much of a political and economic philosophy for centuries, it will never be conquered.


So, David Thomas, I've referred Thomas Malthus from nearby England to you previously on your often-preached depletion of finite resources sermon.  Malthus theorized that the rapid population growth of his time would shortly result in hunger, death, war, and disease all sorts of calamities.  This was at a time when the world population was around 800 million, back in the late 1790s.  I know that there are food distribution issues throughout the world, but it has NOTHING to do with land being taken up by golf courses of the Trump variety or the most modest mom-and-pop operations, many which have a hard time staying afloat.  That much of the developed world suffers from obesity and diabetes and a large amount of food is wasted daily might give you pause to consider other points of view.


Ditto for the song about peak oil, water, and a variety of other resources.  15 years ago a former participant in this DG sent me a paper from one of his colleagues declaring that fossil fuel supplies had already turned down the curve and that the descent was steep.


As it would have it, I had someone close to me who was working for the energy practice of a major worlwide consultancy- investment bank and he sent me the fact sheet of what their clients were working from- 200+ years supply at then consumption rates based on current extraction technologies and political climate, another 100 years with likely improvements, and an additional 100 years (400 years total, or thereabouts) with possible/promising changes in technology, consumption, and government disposition.  That the environmental lobby is now pushing for sequestering fossil fuel supplies in the ground might, again, point to turning the page in your hymn group.


We want to improve the world?  Find a new hymn book!   Fear and doom only empowers the ruling classes.   Start making something- a manufactured product, and app that enhances productivity and makes our lives easier, a social service like the very noble Mike Sweeney has been directing for years which greatly improves the lives of many kids and young adults who through no fault of their own find themselves in an unenviable position.


We want to improve golf?  Volunteer with the First Tee, your state golf association, the USGA.  Even if you can't "spot" the balls coming off a tee (reference the disappointing thread on the subject), there are many things which can be accomplished for the betterment of the game AND society.   End of sermon.


 

Thomas Dai

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2021, 02:19:40 PM »
Thanks Lou.
Atb

Carl Rogers

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2021, 07:47:37 AM »
Reference the long & short term drought in the southwest:.


How much longer will golf be allowed to consume that much water?


Will it really matter which politician gets elected to what office?


To state the obvious: unlike money, water cannot be invented.


Not a question of "if", but "when" or  "how much" golf in AZ will be shut down.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

jeffwarne

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2021, 08:04:54 AM »



Will it really matter which politician gets elected to what office?


To state the obvious: unlike money, water cannot be invented.


Not a question of "if", but "when" or  "how much" golf in AZ will be shut down.


No worries. When the vote comes down to shut down golf in AZ, it will be years before they finish the recounts.


Golf will be the least of our future concerns given the political road we're stumbling down.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

MCirba

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Re: OT: Is the future of golf in trouble by way of politics?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2021, 12:36:44 PM »



No worries. When the vote comes down to shut down golf in AZ, it will be years before they finish the recounts.


Golf will be the least of our future concerns given the political road we're stumbling down.



Indeed. 




"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/