Where does Mickelson stand among the greats

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen

I take the point but I was just tweaking Donald's Erik's tail for a bit of fun. However there is a serious point and that is the US also had its moments when the field was weakened because they restricted access to the best from overseas but I don't think you're going to see US players downgraded because they won tournaments during those times.

My own take on Phil is that he is perhaps a bit over-rated on here but has still had a stellar career. For such an attacking and in some ways flamboyant golfer, it is a bit ironic that he's been a bit of a steady eddy without hitting the peaks that others reached. For instance it took him over 30 years to win his 6 majors and in that time he was always one of the pack rather than the man to beat. He never was the best in the world and I think that counts against him when you compare him to the likes of Singh, Couples, Faldo and especially Seve.

Niall

Its all good Niall, Erik can take it! 

As for strength of field, when you look at PGA Tour events week in and week out, year over year for at least the last 3-4 decades, all of the highest ranked feilds are found there or in the Majors or WGC events. So yes, Phil didn't travel extensively overseas, but primarily because he didn't have to play against the toughest competition.  By the same token, Tiger didn't travel much overseas either, and I don't see that being held against him.

As for the WGRs, yes he was never world #1...but as previously pointed out, he's also 3rd all time for number of weeks ranked in the top 10, including 270 weeks as number 2. But given Ernie Else is 2nd all time on same list, I don't know how much value lies in those rankings anyways for purposes of this discussion, especially given we can't compare them with anyone prior to Norman's reign. (Who also happens to be another flawed data point)

[Kevin Pallier]

Also fairly inarguable results.


Strength of field is not measurable but will always hang over these conversations.

Jim


I respect SOF it's not measurable but does it really matter? one can only beat those that are in front of them.

Kevin - my apologies for the delay. Wish I could say I've been out playing...


In my opinion, yes and no.


For example, a major knock against Phil until his 2013 Open was his lack of time and success traveling the world playing against the best from everywhere. I think he's overcome that objection.


Somewhere around 100 years ago the game became some form of the global game it is today. Prior to then, it was nearly impossible for a great player to travel the world and compete against any sort of field of great players.


The Bobby Locke, Roberto DiVincenzo, Peter Thomson positions are interesting but to secure a place in the all time Top 10, fortune must be on your side as well. Fortune in this case to include access and opportunity.


Like the nuances of greatest golf course debates, I enjoy the banter but have no illusions that there is a factual answer in the end.

Jim


Thanks for your thoughts - respect that it's not an exact science - but it does provides interesting discussions as does ranking / rating golf courses 


In trying to compare golfers there's always going to be variables that certain people favour over others.


eg: The US Tour has widely been accepted as the premier tour then the European tour then what? Asian / Australasian / Sunshine Tour? Player won over 100 Tour events incl. 63 Sunshine Tour Victories - how much emphasis does one place on those v say Casper's US Tour victories?


World Wars impacted the careers of Hagen, Hogan, Snead, Nelson etc - some more than others


IMO - I would love to see the PGA Championship become a global event and shared around the World but I doubt I will ever see that happening. Politics, $ and power I believe are some of the forces that would prevent that from occuring.


I would love to see it because it would force the great players to travel and play great courses all over the World. Of today's greats McIlroy, Woods, Spieth have travelled to Australia and won. It's disappointing not to have seen Mickelson (outside the Presidents Cup) or Koepka play here.


I wish more players like Player, Palmer and Nicklaus travelled but unfortunately there's no incentive to.

[Thomas Dai]

One thing I admire about Phil Mickelson is his ability to think and play outside the box ... 2 Drivers, no Driver, Frankenwood*, Driving-iron, 64* wedge, etc and to vary the clubs he carries depending on circumstances/conditions/course/terrain etc etc. I wonder if he'll ever put a 'Jigger' in his bag?
Has there ever been another top echelon player who has operated on such a varied club selection basis?
atb


* Note - the 2-wood he carried at Kiawah/PGA was a Taylor Made 11.5* 275cc Original One Mini-Driver. Won't be long before a Callaway version (Frankenwood II?) hits the street I imagine especially as a new version of TM's one at 300cc has just been placed on the list of conforming clubs by the authorities. Speculation time - has there been a tip-off, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, about future Driver head size restrictions on Tour? By the way PM's Driver at Kiawah apparently had only 5.5* loft.

[JESII]

Thomas, certainly agree on his penchant for trying odd things...see his Tour nickname of FIGJAM.




Regarding the hint of a reduced clubhead size as his motivation for wielding the 275cc 2 wood, I suspect he wouldn't roll out "rolled-back" equipment before their time. He (and everyone making a living at it) would use the best they can when playing for these stakes.  JMHO of course...

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks Jim. I didn’t mean PM himself was looking ahead more that the manufacturers might be.
Atb

[JESII]

Oh...got it.


I'd put that in the category of everything old is new again. How many times have we been told we could find 12 yards more than last years clubs? Imagine how far the ball would go!?!


That said, there have certainly been more assertive comments by the USGA/R&A recently that give hope to the roll-back crew.

[Steve Lang]

   old is new again indeed,


 in 20+ years have reshafted my old Orlimar 2W & 4W 3-4 times and they're better than ever!  as the vintage ads said, not over-size but the right size (Roger Maltby & Mark Lye)..


PM's mind set and personality is certainly a product of his time, whether great or not, very interesting and entertaining.