News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 3
Mowing lines
« on: April 30, 2021, 12:23:34 PM »
I used to belong to a course on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. It isn't a particularly good course but I enjoyed being a member. The greens were pretty much all oval and the fairways were like bowling alleys: all straight. The fairway and rough were all the same grass. I kept suggesting that all the super had to do was be a little creative with his mowing patterns. He could pinch a fairway here and there. turn a fairway to make it more interesting off the tee, and make some closely mown areas around some of the greens. All were met with derision. Some designs could be appreciably improved just by how you cut the grass.


Any experience this making a difference?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark Mammel

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2021, 12:54:36 PM »
We have been working with Jim Urbina for many years at WBYC and have been adjusting mowing lines over the last few years (as well as removing trees, bunker work, etc etc). Well worth the effort, especially when done by someone with the right eye for the impact. Really improves the visual as well as playing characteristics.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2021, 12:57:56 PM »
Working on the mowing lines has always been step #1 in my consulting work, because it is essentially free, unless you have to move or add irrigation heads to deal with the expansions.


It can make a dramatic difference in the feel and playability of a course.




corey miller

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2021, 01:15:19 PM »



Not that it is all  "free" but almost all classic era courses could benefit from bettering the mowing lines, felling trees, and expanding greens onto the full green pad. 


I agree with Tom, it makes a dramatic difference in the feel and playability of a course.  With that in mind, why do clubs not "listen" to architects when it comes to the height of rough which seems to go hand in hand with mowing lines and has equally dramatic implications for the feel and playability of a course?




Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2021, 01:18:23 PM »

I agree with Tom, it makes a dramatic difference in the feel and playability of a course.  With that in mind, why do clubs not "listen" to architects when it comes to the height of rough which seems to go hand in hand with mowing lines and has equally dramatic implications for the feel and playability of a course?


Corey:


I've had some green committees ask me pointedly about the mowing heights for the rough -- and other clubs where they did not want to know my opinion on that at all, feeling that was the role of the green committee and not an "architectural" decision.

corey miller

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2021, 02:04:02 PM »



Perhaps it is a separate to what extent should height of rough be based on the fairway width or fairway mowing lines. 


It might be contrary to what most think but it would seem that high rough and narrower fairways would go hand in hand because punitive rough would lead one to aim more down the middle.


At a club that I am familiar with it is thought that the incredibly beautiful (fairway cut is much more appealing to the eye) wide fairways with preferred side to hit is well suited to high punitive rough.


What of the argument that course with preferred spots in wide fairways should have modest rough to encourage players to actually try to hit a preferred side of the fairway.  If aiming at a fairway side leads to a .5 shot "penalty" in the rough enough times it would seem that players would just aim for the middle.


TOM


Circling back to you....Do you have a specific answer to the rough height "not being an architectural decision"? Or does that just illicit an eye roll?  Again, my experience is that Architects prefer to not want to deal with the politics of these decisions but for a laymen, like me, with little architectural gravitas....What/where does the best discussion of rough height and it's implications exist?     

Ben Malach

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2021, 03:14:06 PM »
This is the one thing that I think most places could benefit from an outside eye. Most supers are great at what they do which is maintaining playing surfaces. However, this is one area where a greens committee or an architect can really add value without adding a lot of costs.


One thing I don't see enough of is when we adjust the mowing lines we also should be looking at how the roughs and their playability. Honestly, there have been some places I have seen adjust the mow lines in the fairways to increase widths and incorporate the bunkers and natural features more in the fairway.  Then they let their roughs become jungles, which is an issue because all of the work they have done to increase fun, playability, and options is out of the window for most players.
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter
Eclectic Golf Design
Founder/Lead Designer

Mike_Trenham

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2021, 03:20:28 PM »
Best improved mowing lines on a low budget I nominate Jeffersonville Golf Club and Jeff Schilling. 


Shilling and his team are doing the work in house but they did get the aid of Ipreslis/DuPont and Prichard/Rae.  It’s nothing short of remarkable.



Proud member of a Doak 3.

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2021, 05:09:19 PM »
May I suggest that the best mowing lines are those established by grazing animals, especially sheep. And that the best height of cut for playing golf (putting surfaces maybe apart) is the height that sheep normally nibble grass too.
Atb

Jay Mickle

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2021, 11:22:24 AM »
One of my pet peeves is where mowing lines isolate bunkers amidst a see of rough.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Cristian

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 10:21:52 PM »
Mostly mowing lines should be wider to prevent irrigating rough areas. Irrigation corridors wider than the mowing lines usually provide for lost-ball or unplayable spinach rough just outside the fairways, punishing the slightly off line shot worse than the big miss repetitively. I don’t mind some mowing creativity to add interest as long as the mowing lines are wider than the irrigation corridors.....


I used to belong to a course on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. It isn't a particularly good course but I enjoyed being a member. The greens were pretty much all oval and the fairways were like bowling alleys: all straight. The fairway and rough were all the same grass. I kept suggesting that all the super had to do was be a little creative with his mowing patterns. He could pinch a fairway here and there. turn a fairway to make it more interesting off the tee, and make some closely mown areas around some of the greens. All were met with derision. Some designs could be appreciably improved just by how you cut the grass.


Any experience this making a difference?

Sean_A

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 04:04:25 AM »
One of my pet peeves is where mowing lines isolate bunkers amidst a see of rough.

Isolate most any feature really. It's especially annoying to see mow lines through the middle of a feature, yet it's common. I feel the same about greens with potato chip shaping on the outer edges. Either include the feature as short grass or not, but never down the middle.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Mowing lines
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 11:26:51 AM »
One of my best gca lessons came from Pete Dye.  The "typical" fw mowing line weaves in and out, often shaped by a mound on the inside point.  He said his preference was a pretty straight line, that rolled up and over gentle hills (probably 15% or so, not over 30% slopes.)  Or even one where the low point is the inside of a very gentle curve, and the "outies" were on the top of a gentle ridge.


While mowing lines look great on plan or from airplanes when they curve around, basically, from the tee (the primary viewing point) a straight line rolling over hill and dale as he described is more attractive.  And, straighter lines can be called "fairer" as well, since one shot a few yards shorter than another identical shot usually gets similar treatment, rather than one being in the rough and the other in the FW.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach