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Jeff Johnston

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2021, 05:07:38 PM »
To counter the shortest thread, I’ll start this one, limited to GB&I courses. Pointless everywhere else in the world where carts come before design... could say that the cart comes before the horse in fact.


In Ireland, the worst transition I can think of is a 500m trek between 9 green and 10 tee at Macreddin in Wicklow. Also about 300m from 18 green to the clubhouse. Plus the steepest dropshot Par-3 I know where you have to walk halfway back up the hill to the next tee. Painful.


Ally, the thread title alone made me think ‘Macreddin’, even before seeing your post! Nice challenge every so often but a must-buggy course in my book, which is obviously a downside.


Seem to recall a few green to tee hikes at Killeen Castle too, particularly going to the tee of the late-ish downhill par 5.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 01:26:54 PM »
The Manor House at Castle Combe has several hikes, including one serious hill climb
It actually has FOUR serious hill climbs. The course is unwalkable for 90% of people. The one from 17 to 18 would make Mo Farrah puff like a choo choo train.


It was the course that came immediately to mind for me.  Played it 10 years ago and the only impression I’m left with is the ridiculous green to tee walks.
Conrad Gamble, Giles Payne and I were all members for a year or two, when they had a good deal for country members and we all lived west of London. At the time we were in our 20s and all playing other sports reasonably seriously.  We only ever walked a couple of times.  As Adrian says, unwalkable for most, not an enjoyable walk for anyone.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Angus Moir

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2021, 03:15:51 PM »
The 8th to 9th at Cruden Bay requires an oxygen mask...I can remember during Open tournaments the club laid on a wee Land Rover to get us all up the hill at pace!!!Before Health and Safety put paid to that of course...

Thomas Dai

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2021, 03:58:02 PM »
The 8th to 9th at Cruden Bay requires an oxygen mask...I can remember during Open tournaments the club laid on a wee Land Rover to get us all up the hill at pace!!!Before Health and Safety put paid to that of course...
Known by some locally as ‘Cardiac Hill’!
Atb

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 04:06:35 PM »
The Manor House at Castle Combe has several hikes, including one serious hill climb
It actually has FOUR serious hill climbs. The course is unwalkable for 90% of people. The one from 17 to 18 would make Mo Farrah puff like a choo choo train.


It was the course that came immediately to mind for me.  Played it 10 years ago and the only impression I’m left with is the ridiculous green to tee walks.
Conrad Gamble, Giles Payne and I were all members for a year or two, when they had a good deal for country members and we all lived west of London. At the time we were in our 20s and all playing other sports reasonably seriously.  We only ever walked a couple of times.  As Adrian says, unwalkable for most, not an enjoyable walk for anyone.


The last time I played Castle Combe was only a few years ago and it was my second walked 18 holes of the day, having earlier played Burnham & Berrow with Sean Arble. Not the ideal course to make up a 36-hole day, but I really enjoyed it . I remember it was really hot, a very quiet Sunday afternoon and I pretty much had the course to myself. Admittedly, I was hanging by the end and never was a cold one and a golf club shower more appreciated!
2024: Royal St. David's(x2); Mill Ride(x7); Milford; Notts; JCB(x2), Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (North), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Francisco, Epsom, Casa Serena (CZ), Hayling

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2021, 04:17:02 AM »

The Wales National course at the Vale Resort.

The course is in several sections so you had frequent walks between holes from one bit of the course to the next.

It prides itself on being 7433 yards long, yet for us paying visitors it was set up up at least 1500 yards shorter.  That's nearly a mile of walking past redundant tee boxes.

It was so wet that carrying was banned!  Everyone had to hire a cart or use(hire) a trolley and stick to the paved path. This path was always on the outside of doglegs and outside an area of rough.

Worst day I've ever spent on a Golf Course.
This was exactly my point about the current fad if mega forward tees on the other thread. The archie doesn't seem to think it is an issue because that ground needs to be covered anyway. It strikes me as design that will encourage cart use and that is generally not top notch design work.

Ciao


Yes compact sites can have many benefits... but regardless of site size, I always think that trying to position the middle two sets of four tees (that see 90% of play) nearest the previous green is a decent generalisation when laying out a course.

Sure, it might be simple for new courses if we assume that something like 5000 to 6000 yards is the target length to locate tees near greens. It's the retrofitting on already built courses where there are issues. I think it an extreme rarity to make tees range from 7000 to 4500 and have sensible walk when adding tees after the course is built. To me it's a scam which archies fall back on because they know folks will ride. Not a clever approach. Somehow, archies have to admit the mega tee concept has serious flaws if walking is an important aspect of design.

Ciao


I think scam is the right word.   A few months after I played there the Europro (second division euro tour) held a comp. It was still very wet with zero run and balls plugging in the fairway.  It was set up at less than 6600 yards or more than half a mile less than the boasted about "Championship" length. I later spoke to one of the players who confirmed it was a miserable experience.


The R&A are heavily implicated in this nonsense. They drop not so subtle hints that courses have to be 7300 yards before they can be considered for ANY of the competitions which are within their patronage to grant. Clubs then call in the Royal Artillery (M&E division) who will find them that distance. But can anyone tell me when The Open, The Walker Cup in the past 20 years GB&I has been played 'from the tips'?  I have my yardage books from playing them and it's clear from my visits to Opens and the TV pictures, that back tees are not always used and that often its the front section of the second tee that's used.

Many of these tees are an expensive paper exercise which will never be used in the prevailing wind. Second tier clubs are jumping on board when they have no hope of a senior tournament but wish to be seen as top tier.

Jobs for the boys, and hang the members and the environment.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Thomas Dai

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2021, 04:53:10 AM »
Good point Tony.
I recall spectating at a Seniors Tour event where the big signs, highly visible to spectators and TV, on each tee stated the back tee yardages but the actual tees in use were often the members yellows and some were even in front of the members yellows.
Atb

Richard Fisher

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2021, 04:59:31 AM »
Tony
The general point about stretching second tier courses is well taken but I don't agree with the point about the R&A and specific distance requirements for all championship venues. None of the three Welsh courses used by the R&A in recent years comes anywhere near 7300 yards, and in the case of RStD Harlech the latter is currently 6629 off the tips...Porthcawl just gets over 7000 cards with use of the very back tee at the 5th, whilst Conwy comes in at 6910. The Principality remains small in stature but high in impact (as England discovered last Saturday). :)

Niall C

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2021, 06:16:32 AM »
I agree with Richard. R&A championship venues are generally links and old ones at that. There principal defence is not length.

That said, I'm looking forward to Lethamhill being the first 9-holer to host an Open Qualifier. ;D

Niall

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Golf courses with longest green to tee transitions (GB&I only)
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2021, 12:25:28 PM »
Tony
The general point about stretching second tier courses is well taken but I don't agree with the point about the R&A and specific distance requirements for all championship venues. None of the three Welsh courses used by the R&A in recent years comes anywhere near 7300 yards, and in the case of RStD Harlech the latter is currently 6629 off the tips...Porthcawl just gets over 7000 cards with use of the very back tee at the 5th, whilst Conwy comes in at 6910. The Principality remains small in stature but high in impact (as England discovered last Saturday). :)




Richard I've grown to love Porthcawl and I'm very excited to see the other two this July (fingers crossed).  My hat off to them if they really have resisted this trend but Wales will always receive some tournaments from the R&A.  In the same way NI has benefited from political pressure.


Niall I fully agree that length is not the prime defense of a links course!

I've tried to look up a few of the websites of The Open Championship courses and they have become strangely coy on their length. You could work Hoylake, RSG and Troon out with a calculator and some e.g. TOC 6721 and Turnberry 6474 are from long ago. This could be a function of the ever changing scorecards we see at so many courses, or maybe they don't want visitors asking to play the longest tees as they know they are are not needed for the test.

Let's make GCA grate again!

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