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David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2021, 12:15:47 PM »
As for the hole being "contrived," aren't all holes in the middle of a desert contrived to a large extent?  ;D

Steve_Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2021, 03:25:43 PM »
It's been a consequential hole in several Phoenix Open's. It's great hole to watch in person.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2021, 03:46:52 PM »
I think we all agree all the holes there are "manufactured" - it's golf in a desert.  But I still think the 17th is the most interesting and exciting to play and/or watch on the golf course.  I've only played it a few times but it is fun.  I know I should make a birdie or at worst a par but I also know I could make something higher.  I sure don't want to lay back when I know with a great drive I can get there off the tee, but I also don't want that shot in the center fairway bunker if I don't hit it pure.  I could just layup short of everything but that is hard to convince your ego to listen.  I also don't really want to approach a pin on the left from the right knowing the water is right there behind but I also know a tee shot down the left might bring the water into play anyway immediately.  And any back pin is just scary altogether so it would be nice to have a shot you can put some spin on.  Decisions decisions decisions.  But if you can pull off any of the shots it is very rewarding.  It might look very contrived (which it is) but it is a 10 as far as short par fours go. 

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2021, 03:51:53 PM »
I think we all agree all the holes there are "manufactured" - it's golf in a desert.  But I still think the 17th is the most interesting and exciting to play and/or watch on the golf course.  I've only played it a few times but it is fun.  I know I should make a birdie or at worst a par but I also know I could make something higher.  I sure don't want to lay back when I know with a great drive I can get there off the tee, but I also don't want that shot in the center fairway bunker if I don't hit it pure.  I could just layup short of everything but that is hard to convince your ego to listen.  I also don't really want to approach a pin on the left from the right knowing the water is right there behind but I also know a tee shot down the left might bring the water into play anyway immediately.  And any back pin is just scary altogether so it would be nice to have a shot you can put some spin on.  Decisions decisions decisions.  But if you can pull off any of the shots it is very rewarding.  It might look very contrived (which it is) but it is a 10 as far as short par fours go.


+1!!!


Hehehehehe

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2021, 06:41:16 PM »
He most certainly did not hit a great drive there. Re-watch that swing and his reaction to the swing itself. He knew he did not hit the shot he wanted to the moment he hit that ball. Knew it was hooking. The fact that he almost got away with it takes nothing away from that hole.

Just found the video. He hit a crappy tee ball (for a pro) and he was punished on a hole where you simply cannot hit driver and miss left.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1358548957144694786
+1  :)
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2021, 09:38:47 PM »
"Lay-up" may be misinterpreted here. The big hitters (pros) often strive for a bail out to the right, but they know that is no gimme because the hole location along the left edge of the water is terrifying from the right side swale. That swale, by the way, is a "Valley of Sin" but in a Phoenix TPC style. It's short grass and the green has a cant away from the player. Terrifying if you are trying to put the second shot anywhere close, and who wouldn't after hitting 330+ yards?

Many (pros) bust it toward the hole, knowing that a ball in the drink to the left is still a likely par because that chip/pitch is far easier than from the right.

As you'll read in Golf Journal next month — No. 17 at TPC Scottsdale is all about the angles, and it is the hole location that mostly drives the perplexity...because the closer you are to the hole location off the tee on a par-4, the more dramatic the angle possibilities.

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2021, 10:15:40 PM »
Thumbs up Forrest!!  Agree with all you said.  Don’t forget to include how you play the hole - Driver/5I  ;D ;D


There are options for everyone!

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: TPC Scottsdale #17
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2021, 09:02:52 AM »
D, 5I !  Ha-ha.  I've played TPC Scottsdale about 5 times and I do believe once with some "macho boys" who had me at the wrong tee length. It may well have been a 5I!  :'(
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com