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R_Paulis

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Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« on: December 29, 2020, 06:14:27 PM »
Rustic's quirky #7 fairway before the wash has a series of uneven lies towards the middle of the fairwary. These uneven depressions are not traditional grass bunkers and are cut the same height as the rest of the fairway.  It appears to be a design feature that perhaps makes a safe tee shot a bit more difficult. I do not see this feature elsewhere on the course.

I don't try to avoid them as they really can't be seen from the tee and only occasionally does it make the approach more challenging.


If intentional, what is the purpose of this design feature?
Was the uneven fairway in place before the storm that washed out the fairway that extended from the green?
Perhaps the unevenness is result of fairway reconstruction?

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2021, 07:32:31 PM »
I played Rustic una vez, in 2015. I REMEMBER that portion of the fairway that you evoke. I think that the front nine is soooo flat, in comparison with the inward half, that Hanse and Company had to intentionally put those rumples in there. I love any course that tosses a dry wash in. Simply awesome thing for a northeast guy.
Coming in 2024
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~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Dan Grossman

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 12:48:25 AM »
That fairway was created after the floods in (2005?) washed out the green and fairway completely. The green used to sit low on the other side of the barranca and was a semi blind shot, unless you carried the wash to the right. The rumples were added from all the dirt / silt that was deposited on that fairway as part of the flooding. The course review on this site from 2002 shows a bit of how it used to look.


I preferred the hole pre-flood.

David Kelly

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 01:27:45 PM »
I agree with Dan that the hole was better before the flood.  The green was flush to the ground and ridiculously subtle, something the current green is not. 


Like Dan said, the current fairway was created because after the fires of 2004 burnt virtually everything that wasn't tee, fairway and green in the entire canyon the course was a sitting duck when the floods of late 2004/early 2005 came through.  Tons of sand and silt were deposited on top of the 7th hole, completely obliterating the green and fairway.  Hanse was brought back in to rebuild #7 and fashioned the new hole out of what was laying on top of the old one.  That's why both the fairway and green have features not seen throughout the rest of the course. 



"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 04:44:30 AM »
Rustic's quirky #7 fairway before the wash has a series of uneven lies towards the middle of the fairwary. These uneven depressions are not traditional grass bunkers and are cut the same height as the rest of the fairway.  It appears to be a design feature that perhaps makes a safe tee shot a bit more difficult. I do not see this feature elsewhere on the course.

I don't try to avoid them as they really can't be seen from the tee and only occasionally does it make the approach more challenging.


If intentional, what is the purpose of this design feature?
Was the uneven fairway in place before the storm that washed out the fairway that extended from the green?
Perhaps the unevenness is result of fairway reconstruction?


The flood was the result of the fire. What happened was a once in two hundred year event that ravaged all of Southern California’s water flow zones and as you probably know and understand, Happy Camp Canyon is one of those zones.


If the fire doesn’t happen, there would have been plenty of water shed from the hillsides that would have far lessened the blow.  Unfortunately, the fire did happen and the water came from way up in the canyon following gravity and creating not one, but several flash floods.  One of these literally lifted the bridge crossing at #7 off of its pedestal and floated several yards till it stopped and dammed the flow of water.  As it spilled over the sides it destroyed #7 green (were talking fast moving water here!) and literally spilled over into the swale of #6 fairway while sparing its higher-sitting green.


Once the bridge extricated itself of its dam duties, it finally (from memory) ended up near the middle or closer to the tee of driving fairway of #5!  The water flow was so powerful at this point that the silt, sand, mud and other once beautiful creek bed fauna that turned it mulch buried #4 green in about two to three feet of the stuff, only after it filled the approximately 500’ x 75’ x 20’ deep spillway that still to this day is filled with sand & sediment from that event.  It doesn’t end there!  For months after, driving into the gates, you literally rely like you were driving through small dunes, which buried the 30” tall split rail fencing on even the opposite side of the road!


Some of the other holes damaged were #11, where the entire waste bunker which was mostly at fairway level, simply disappeared as well as taking a half-moon section of the left fairway; the back tees on #14 were obliterated as well as the left side of #18, just off of the right fairway, driving area to the green.  That waste bunker there was a work of art shaping and due to time & money, never got the full attention it deserved during the repair of that hole.  If you look closely, you will see the former bunker that’s now washed out that was near the barranca/wash about even with the driving zone.  It used to be a guideline to the fairway for a well-struck drive down the right side!


Getting back to your original inquiry: why the swales in the fairway?  Well, those were created by water flow!  It was Jim Wagner’s & Gil’s idea to take full advantage of the hand Mother Nature dealt us... Shape those areas into fairway contours!  It’s actually the only change I really like about the hole as the green is too severe for my tastes.  We forgot to show restraint from those bold features!  In this case, too bold!  Also, Rustic Canyon owner, Craig Price wanted to avoid any more loss of a green should another event happen, thus, building the area up, making the hole longer and the green higher, out of harm’s way.  Completely understandable!


I did an overlay sometime back showing the differences of the two holes.  Like David Kelly and others, the original 7th was a masterpiece. It was a great loss!  IMHO, it still doesn’t diminish Rustic.  In fact, the positive was that Superintendent, Jeff Hicks found the opportunity to plant Bermuda grass, which is what we should have used from the very beginning!  That experiment proved wise as Jeff continues to keep it fast & firm & fun once that experiment with Bermuda on #7 proved wise.  It’s what you’ll play on all of the fairways today in the most colorful suit of the season you’ll see during the time of the year you’re playing there!









Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2021, 05:04:06 AM »
One other note:


About a week after the flood, both Jim & Gil came out here to try to get the course playable, as quickly as possible. 


One rainy afternoon, Gil & I were on #9 in the approach area, trying to figure out a solution for cart traffic between #1 & 9 green.  Suddenly, Jim Wagner, who was up on #11 in a bulldozer trying to repair that hole, called my flip phone (at the time! Ha!) and yelled, Get over to the wash! Quickly!  Well, I misunderstood him.  He was saying, “Get OUT of the wash! Quickly!


With ten seconds we went over to the wash and witnessed nature’s hand at work.  Literally like something you’d see on the Universal Studios tour, about a 1-1/2’ tall flash flood and about five seconds behind that another wave, only it was riding in top of the previous flow, even faster!  Water actually running over the top of water!


At the time, using your phone for pictures was still very new and instantly, I reacted (once I knew we were safe!) to put the phone on movie mode!  I actually captured it on my phone!  I have to look back in the thousands of files to find it, probably in stunning 240x120 resolution, but it did in fact capture a portion of the event with Gil & I staring on in amazement!


None of that compares to Jeff Hicks though, who was out there for the initial flash flood, which happened in the pitch of darkness!  Jeff says all he could hear was a roar of water flowing and he knew it was trouble!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 05:06:38 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

Bill Seitz

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2021, 11:10:14 PM »
Great stuff, Tommy.  Thanks for sharing.

Scott Weersing

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2021, 09:14:25 AM »
Thanks for the flood photos, they are amazing. This same flood also washed away the bridges at Soule Park in Ojai. And so Hanse was able to redo Soule Park. I miss the original 4th green but I do like the mound in front that now hides the front of the green.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2021, 10:20:08 AM »
I do recall a thread here discussing it, and Geoff S came on to tell us the fire denuded hillsides dramatically increased flow, as Tommy N just said.  While it seems incredible, if you look at the rational formula for drainage runoff, open ground might allow up to 70% of rain to run off, whereas the typical wooded area is about 20%, or even less.


Also, there was some discussion about why they didn't raise the fw to offer some kind of flood protection, and Geoff S said the most important factor to the design team was the excellent "micro contours" in the area, which I presumed was the mix of subtle valleys and ridges.  They also mentioned some restrictive permit conditions, which I assumed were pretty standard compensatory flow storage and "no net rise" in flood elevations, but it was CA, so there probably were a few more.


I saw the course right after flood damage.  As seen in the aerials, it's amazing the other side of the channel has very little flood damage, and I recall thinking it would have only taken about a foot of rise to protect the 7th.  Maybe 2, I didn't use a surveyors level, but it compares with Tommy's observations while he was there.


I maintained at the time that the "standard" gca approach would probably be to raise the fw for equal flood protection to the other side, because if one hole is out of play, in many cases they all are.  As noted, that would have required a lot of engineering and permits, if even allowed, but it just goes to show that gca is more engineering than many realize, and certainly more compromise in many cases.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2021, 11:40:35 PM »
Jeff, the flood was called a 1 in 300 year event. (I think I posted as 200 above, but it was 300.  There would have been far less damage had the bridge not been floated off if it’s foundations and literally dammed the wash...  the power to do that, was all to impressive!


From what the Fire Department told us was that all of the existing matter, which had burned, actually releases a gas which literally speeds up the flow of water!  This is how most flash floods occur in burned out areas:  quick water build up, then release.  The water running over the exposed organic matter is more akin to a slip & slide for water!  It just goes! And fast!


The only positive out of this flooding was that previously, the golf course prevented hundreds of homes from being burnt down!  Let’s not forget that one of the subtleties of Rustic Canyon is the pitch from high point to low is around +/- 250’!




David Ober

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2021, 02:27:09 PM »
Tommy,


Why not bring back the old fairway to the right and back? Just too much work/money and would have to re-route the crossing? That hole needs to be able to be played from the right, IMHO.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2021, 03:06:11 PM »
Jeff, the flood was called a 1 in 300 year event. (I think I posted as 200 above, but it was 300.  There would have been far less damage had the bridge not been floated off if it’s foundations and literally dammed the wash...  the power to do that, was all to impressive!


From what the Fire Department told us was that all of the existing matter, which had burned, actually releases a gas which literally speeds up the flow of water!  This is how most flash floods occur in burned out areas:  quick water build up, then release.  The water running over the exposed organic matter is more akin to a slip & slide for water!  It just goes! And fast!


The only positive out of this flooding was that previously, the golf course prevented hundreds of homes from being burnt down!  Let’s not forget that one of the subtleties of Rustic Canyon is the pitch from high point to low is around +/- 250’!


Tommy, didn't recall all the details, but yes, it was a big flood.  No gca, no matter how engineering inclined, would engineer drainage for a 300 year storm....not even me!  For any given situation, we do a rough calc of revenues lost vs. annual debt cost, and of course, total budget we have to work with.  Along with lost days of play, ideally, we calculate number of years that would require repair.  I think in this case, the 300 year storm came in about year 5 of the golf course operation, while mentally, most of us figure we have the full 300 years to work with, by which time, we'll be dead and statute of limitations will be expired, LOL.  But, it doesn't always work that way.


The most I typically see is 2 year storm design for every day immediate drainage, and 10-25 years for everything else, except greens which get 100 year plus one foot (to protect mix) elevations.   That said, it still looks to me like raising the 7th about 2-3 feet would have stopped the problem.  And, I have designed more than a few bridges designed to be tear away in floods, held back from flowing downstream by a steel cable.


Never underestimate the power of water.  And, if this was Houston, know the former 500 year storm is now reclassified as the 25 year storm (after happening 3 times in 5 years) since the classification is an average of how many times each storm hits.  If you believe in global warming, you would expect at least the 200 year storm to be the new 100 year storm.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2021, 06:58:29 PM »
Tommy,


Why not bring back the old fairway to the right and back? Just too much work/money and would have to re-route the crossing? That hole needs to be able to be played from the right, IMHO.


David,
Craig Price, the owner of Rustic Canyon simply asked for the green to be raised because he didn’t want the risk should another flood happen.  Mind you the entire hole had literally been swept away.  The only thing remains besides the tee was the right fairway bunker that still exists.  Everything else was a complete disaster area.  And, the most important thing: get the course back open ASAP!


I agree, and everyone has talked about it, that someday, we’d live to rebuild it, but the entire terrain changed there dramatically.


Jeff,
Part of the allure and playability of Rustic Canyon is its natural element. Adding flood control, for me would gravely damage that beautiful allure! Just the idea of concrete channels and dams to control the flow of water, well, I think the risk is well worth the ultimate cost.  Could you imagine how much that engineering and concrete would add to a green fee?!? 


Right now, it’s close to impossible to get a tee time—in the middle of a global pandemic! 

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2021, 07:28:19 PM »
Tommy,


I wasn't thinking of concrete channels.  Just raising the fairways above some flood level and contouring them to drain fast.  To me, that's a no brainer.  Geoff was worried about the natural "micro contours" but I felt they could be recreated close enough that most golfers wouldn't know the difference.


But, again, it is quite an engineering problem, and I couldn't say it was even able to be permitted in CA, or if possible, whether it could be engineered with proper cut and fill balance to meet permit requirements (no net rise in a flood.)  At the time, Geoff made it sound like keeping nature outweighed keeping fw dry, which wouldn't be the conventional approach.  But, again, no one would engineer for a 300 year flood, most likely, only to better assure it wasn't going under 3 times a year, much to the concerns of golfers and operators.


Hope all is well out there!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

R_Paulis

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2021, 03:44:04 PM »
"Some of the other holes damaged were #11, where the entire waste bunker which was mostly at fairway level, simply disappeared as well as taking a half-moon section of the left fairway; the back tees on #14 were obliterated as well as the left side of #18, just off of the right fairway, driving area to the green.  That waste bunker there was a work of art shaping and due to time & money, never got the full attention it deserved during the repair of that hole.  If you look closely, you will see the former bunker that’s now washed out that was near the barranca/wash about even with the driving zone.  It used to be a guideline to the fairway for a well-struck drive down the right side!"

Tommy - thanks for the fascinating RC insights pre and post flood.

Is it true driver landing zones were once available on #11 and #18 prior to the flood? I played Rustic a couple of times pre flood and thought #11 had not quite a double fairway but an approach left of the bunker off the tee was an option. However, it's hard to see on historical aerials and I'm not sure if it was a viable approach.

Likewise, was it possible to drive right or over the bunker off #18 tee pre flood? I recall a properly placed drive on the closing hole could get a kick towards the green...

Both might be RC lore that are perhaps untrue.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 05:40:36 PM by R_Paulis »

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Rustic Canyon #7 Uneven Fairway
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 10:40:13 PM »
On #11, the correct side of the fairway is which side of the saddle-like green the pin is on.  It’s still that way to some degree, only a much deeper hazard that bit into the left side of the fairway.  The one great thing not lost on #11 is that particular hazard on the left near the green is still like a magnet, inexplicably drawing a shot short left into it!  I think the correct way to play to left pin is a long running, low shot that takes the left side towards the pin.  Same thing for right center, but a well struck shot over the right side approach bunker Will get you to the extreme right!




Not quite sure what you’re meaning on 18, but before the flood, the drive to carry the right was more defined. With a carry bunker in the hazard as well as the split rail fence.  That area changed all the way past the green.

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