OT-Putting Take the highest possible line

[Peter Pallotta]

SL - I’m very glad you had that experience.
Jeff B - thanks for passing on that insight from Dave Stockton. For several years now I’ve played all my putts to break twice as much as I see them breaking, eg a cup is two cups, 6 inches is 12 inches etc. The simple reason is because I’m convinced that I simply don’t see the break accurately or well — and I always see less break, never more.
And then I try to let it die at the hole, which is both aesthetically pleasing and a respectful nod to the above noted Mr. C

[mike_beene]

Once you identify the high point just putting straight to that point will make you miss low. I am convinced most golfers need to double the break they play. Try one round to miss everything high. I make more putts missing high than I ever made when I was trying.

[Tim Martin]

Finding the fall line on downhill and sidehill putts is an undervalued skill IMO.

[Keith Phillips]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXESf5tSF8
I use this clip a lot to show why taking a high line is the best strategy. Side hill putts are both uphill and downhill, if you don't go up enough you go down too much. But if you go up too much, there is still a chance it can go in.

That is a stunningly good video - thanks!

[Mike_Trenham]

I heard Faxon once say he was more satisfied with a putt that just misses on the low side than on the high side, his rational was that he had utilized to whole width of the hole vs. none of it.


I also think at today’s greens speeds you only want the putt to go by by 12 inches, I saw a video of putts moving slowly having a greater margin of error.

[Sven Nilsen]

There is no one right answer on this.


Not only do different golfers putt differently (dripping it in v. charging it), different putts call for different speeds.  Throw in the varying green surfaces and greens speeds, and all of a sudden everything becomes situational.


On the whole, the best results come from being slightly aggressive with speed, when you don't have to be defensive.  Which is not the highest line.


The best thing most amateur golfers can do is to go look at the make percentages for the pros.  There is such a thing as a good two putt.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,  with all due respect, if I have to choose from whom to take putting advice, I'll pick Crenshaw and Woods over you.  I was lucky enough to MC a putting exhibition put on by Ben sometime ago and it was a sight to behold from up close.  The description of him as a terrific guy is absolutely accurate in my experience.  Even better, when he discovered that I was an architecture geek and that I had recently been on a trip to play Hidden Creek and Friar's Head he couldn't help but comparing notes and ideas after the clinic and at the dinner thereafter.  A wonderful experience.  For those doubting his involvement, I can assure you that he knew the courses and their development in detail.

Shel,

Excellent call, you have certainly chosen wisely! 

I will once again qualify that my comments were intended for 30+ foot putts with a decent amount of break where you are mostly just trying to avoid a 3 jack.  Certainly on shorter and more "conventional" putts, I'm almost always looking to hole the putt and usually don't give much thought to high vs low side miss.  In the future, I probably will pay more attention to high/low side miss %.

Kalen

[Jeff_Brauer]

Here you go Tim

From Broadies book

The mysterious case of missing low


.......If a guy pees and consistently misses the bowl to the right, wouldn’t he try to adjust his aim to compensate? It’s a skill most males perfect at home, though you might not know it from their performance in public restrooms.........

I have told the story before, but after playing Muirfield with Pete Dye, where I missed most putts left, when we visited the restroom, he wouldn't use the urinal to my left, reasoning I would miss left again.







Peter,


Having taken the Pelz one day short game clinic, I am aware of that stat and try to make adjustments.  Normally, I plumb bob my putt line, and for most putts, it seems pretty accurate to me.  However, rather than use the middle of the putter shaft, I place it to the high side of the ball, giving me at least that ball width, as I am essentially aiming 1.68" higher than indicated.  And, I usually add a bit more for a fudge factor to the high side.  I would say it works, but like most recreational ams, putting is the worst part of my game.

[Mark Fedeli]

I heard Faxon once say he was more satisfied with a putt that just misses on the low side than on the high side, his rational was that he had utilized to whole width of the hole vs. none of it.

This is the point I've been trying to make. It's almost as if missing on the high side, for some tournament professionals, is the equivalent of "never up, never in."

[Niall C]

If you always miss putts on the high side and never on the low side, you can't possibly be putting optimally. That said, I do agree that most people under read putts rather than over read them and I do generally think it's a good idea to hit putts closer to dead weight, so taking the highest possible line is probably not a bad idea. If I think a putt is going to break half a ball, I certainly wouldn't add 2 inches to the read so I err on the high side. That's a good way to miss it.

Michael


Apologies if this sounds cheeky but if you miss any putts at all no matter whether they are high or low then you most certainly aren't putting optimally !


Niall

[Niall C]

Here you go Tim

From Broadies book

The mysterious case of missing low


.......If a guy pees and consistently misses the bowl to the right, wouldn’t he try to adjust his aim to compensate? It’s a skill most males perfect at home, though you might not know it from their performance in public restrooms.........

I have told the story before, but after playing Muirfield with Pete Dye, where I missed most putts left, when we visited the restroom, he wouldn't use the urinal to my left, reasoning I would miss left again.

Jeff


I'm sure I've asked before but when are you going to write your book ! 


Niall

[Evan Fleisher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXESf5tSF8
I use this clip a lot to show why taking a high line is the best strategy. Side hill putts are both uphill and downhill, if you don't go up enough you go down too much. But if you go up too much, there is still a chance it can go in.

Thanks for sharing this video...facts and data baby! Fascinating stuff!!!

[Michael Felton]

If you always miss putts on the high side and never on the low side, you can't possibly be putting optimally. That said, I do agree that most people under read putts rather than over read them and I do generally think it's a good idea to hit putts closer to dead weight, so taking the highest possible line is probably not a bad idea. If I think a putt is going to break half a ball, I certainly wouldn't add 2 inches to the read so I err on the high side. That's a good way to miss it.

Michael


Apologies if this sounds cheeky but if you miss any putts at all no matter whether they are high or low then you most certainly aren't putting optimally !


Niall

Then no one putts optimally and all we can do is get as close to it as is realistic. Even a machine doesn't hole every putt. Greens are not perfect surfaces. So, if you only ever miss your putts on the high side, you're putting further from optimally than you would be if you missed roughly half your missed putts low and half high.


If you think of it like a bell curve, where the ball is going to finish up as it passes hole high (assuming it does). The densest point of the bell curve is in the middle and you'll have equal numbers high and low. If you have none low and all of them high, you're only holing the lowest putts on the bell curve, which are few and far between.

[Rob Marshall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXESf5tSF8
I use this clip a lot to show why taking a high line is the best strategy. Side hill putts are both uphill and downhill, if you don't go up enough you go down too much. But if you go up too much, there is still a chance it can go in.

Thanks for sharing this video...facts and data baby! Fascinating stuff!!!

Funny, I was going to post that. John is a great teacher from my town. Works with a lot of tour players and is a great guy to boot.

[Mike Bodo]

If you think of it like a bell curve, where the ball is going to finish up as it passes hole high (assuming it does). The densest point of the bell curve is in the middle and you'll have equal numbers high and low. If you have none low and all of them high, you're only holing the lowest putts on the bell curve, which are few and far between.

Missing on the high side gives you a near perfect visual image of what your comeback putt is going to do as opposed to missing on the low side. In the video example Padraig posted, a low-side miss gives you a return putt to the hole from a completely different side, with no precise knowledge of what that putt will do. To contrast that, when a ball finishes 2 or three ft. directly behind the hole on a high-side miss the golfer has a pretty good idea of what the next put is going to do. I'd be willing to bet if there were a statistic on the percentage of comeback putts missed from having missed the original putt on the low side vs. high side that the rate of 3-putt's occurring from low side misses is much higher. In fact I'd guess it's 65 - 35% low side vs. high side.

[JESII]

That is actually a very interesting hypothetical Mike.


For one thing, the low side miss seemed to run much farther from the hole in the John Graham video, but physics says it will be a straighter putt than the one missing high and going a few past the hole.






The main thing I took from the video was the 4.5% slope used. I guess it would be tougher to illustrate on a more typical 2% slope but outside of scramble's, does anyone use 4.5%?

[Mike Bodo]

That is actually a very interesting hypothetical Mike.


For one thing, the low side miss seemed to run much farther from the hole in the John Graham video, but physics says it will be a straighter putt than the one missing high and going a few past the hole.






The main thing I took from the video was the 4.5% slope used. I guess it would be tougher to illustrate on a more typical 2% slope but outside of scramble's, does anyone use 4.5%?

To further expand on the John Graham video, not knowing the back to front tilt of the green he was on, but say the putts missed on the low side had a 3% left to right on the comeback? That's a scary putt for par. If you noticed, the low-side missed putts finished nearly 90 degrees left of the hole, not 45 degrees left and past. I wouldn't be comfortable with either of those were I left with a 3 or 4 footer for par, but even less the 90 degree miss, as now I am putting to the hole from completely different angle from my first putt.

[Jason Topp]

Another factor affecting this analysis is when a putt is mis-hit- something I have plenty of experience with but is not reflected in the use of the perfect putter in the video.   


My initial thought was that a high mid-hit still has a chance but in the situation depicted in the video it might not be true.  It would likely be short.


I am unsure whether a low-mishit would perform worse than a high mishit.  It seems that it would intuitively but it might run less far past the hole.   

[JESII]

MIke,


The low side putts go well past the hole. Take another look. That was interesting in that the ball rolled a hell of a lot farther due to less uphill (when you aim lower) and more downhill...

[Mike Bodo]

MIke,


The low side putts go well past the hole. Take another look. That was interesting in that the ball rolled a hell of a lot farther due to less uphill (when you aim lower) and more downhill...

Jim, were you to slide the cup 90 degrees left in front of where the low-side balls finished there would be a 6" - 12" gap between them at most. They're closer to 90 degrees left of the hole than they are 45 degrees, let's put it that way. Again, I wouldn't want either of those putts as a comebacker for my par for the reasons previously expressed. I would have rather missed high and have the ball finish behind and or slightly left of the hole.

[Michael Felton]

If you think of it like a bell curve, where the ball is going to finish up as it passes hole high (assuming it does). The densest point of the bell curve is in the middle and you'll have equal numbers high and low. If you have none low and all of them high, you're only holing the lowest putts on the bell curve, which are few and far between.

Missing on the high side gives you a near perfect visual image of what your comeback putt is going to do as opposed to missing on the low side. In the video example Padraig posted, a low-side miss gives you a return putt to the hole from a completely different side, with no precise knowledge of what that putt will do. To contrast that, when a ball finishes 2 or three ft. directly behind the hole on a high-side miss the golfer has a pretty good idea of what the next put is going to do. I'd be willing to bet if there were a statistic on the percentage of comeback putts missed from having missed the original putt on the low side vs. high side that the rate of 3-putt's occurring from low side misses is much higher. In fact I'd guess it's 65 - 35% low side vs. high side.

If you're hitting it well past the hole, it's highly likely that you will have missed on the high side (assuming that you had picked the correct line in the first place). Why are you hitting it that far past? Goal should be around a foot by the hole unless you're a long way away, in which case I'd suggest dead weight is likely an optimal goal. Either way, if you're hitting it 3-4 feet past and missing on the low side, then you read the putt really poorly and certainly didn't pick a line that gave you 50/50 chance of missing high or low.


I can't watch the video at the moment, so apologies if something like this got covered.

[Mike Bodo]

Here's a good video showing why high side misses are more desirable than low-side.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5GYKSCvjd8


Audio quality isn't great, but the reasons given for missing on the high side are sound.