Best 18 Holes Built in the Last 50 Years - Consensus (see p. 6)

[Tom_Doak]

There are countless eclectic course threads here, but I could not find one for modern courses, allowing more than one hole per architect.  Perhaps a bit easier to decide on, but still one I would be more interested in seeing.

Here's a shot at one:  nine holes by Coore & Crenshaw, nine by me, but eighteen different courses.  Feel free to substitute as you wish.


1 - 4 - Cuscowilla
2 - 5 - Talking Stick (North)
3 - 4 - Tara Iti
4 - 4 - The Loop (Black)
5 - 3 - Streamsong (Blue)
6 - 4 - Pacific Dunes
7 - 5 - Streamsong (Red)
8 - 4 - The Renaissance Club
9 - 4 - Trinity Forest


10- 5 - Rock Creek
11- 4 - Bandon Trails
12- 4 - Ballyneal
13- 3 - Barnbougle Dunes
14- 5 - Sand Hills
15- 4 - Friars Head
16- 3 - Cabot Cliffs
17- 4 - Dismal River
18- 5 - Kapalua (Plantation)


Most of these were nominated in the voting for this thread, though I had to throw out the consensus favorite from Barnbougle, Ballyneal and Bandon Trails to make it work as there were not many nominations for holes 11, 12 and 13. 


This is par-74 with five par-5's and only three par-3's -- we did not have many par-3's nominated although I believe we have built some good ones between us.  I just didn't try too hard to make it par 71 or 72.

[Stephen Davis]

Wolf Point Hole 3 is an easy swap to make IMO

Agreed! This is one of my 3 favorite holes at Wolf Point.

[Ira Fishman]

There are countless eclectic course threads here, but I could not find one for modern courses, allowing more than one hole per architect.  Perhaps a bit easier to decide on, but still one I would be more interested in seeing.

Here's a shot at one:  nine holes by Coore & Crenshaw, nine by me, but eighteen different courses.  Feel free to substitute as you wish.


1 - 4 - Cuscowilla
2 - 5 - Talking Stick (North)
3 - 4 - Tara Iti
4 - 4 - The Loop (Black)
5 - 3 - Streamsong (Blue)
6 - 4 - Pacific Dunes
7 - 5 - Streamsong (Red)
8 - 4 - The Renaissance Club
9 - 4 - Trinity Forest


10- 5 - Rock Creek
11- 4 - Bandon Trails
12- 4 - Ballyneal
13- 3 - Barnbougle Dunes
14- 5 - Sand Hills
15- 4 - Friars Head
16- 3 - Cabot Cliffs
17- 4 - Dismal River
18- 5 - Kapalua (Plantation)


Most of these were nominated in the voting for this thread, though I had to throw out the consensus favorite from Barnbougle, Ballyneal and Bandon Trails to make it work as there were not many nominations for holes 11, 12 and 13. 


This is par-74 with five par-5's and only three par-3's -- we did not have many par-3's nominated although I believe we have built some good ones between us.  I just didn't try too hard to make it par 71 or 72.

It is my sad lot in life that I have not played enough C&C or Doak courses to find a way to suggest putting Old Mac 7 in the routing.


Ira

[John Kavanaugh]

During the regrassing of Streamsong 7 is the green being softened so putts from the top shelf down remain on the green?

[Tom_Doak]

It is my sad lot in life that I have not played enough C&C or Doak courses to find a way to suggest putting Old Mac 7 in the routing.

Ira

Honestly, that's not even in my top five seventh holes!  Besides Ballyneal and Barnbougle, I'd rather have the 7th at Pacific Dunes, but they are going to fill other gaps. 


And I do think the 7th at Streamsong (Red) is the best hole on that course . . . which is why I printed a diagram of it in Volume 2 of The Confidential Guide.


Even with nine courses from me and nine from Bill and Ben, there were a lot of good holes left on the cutting room floor.  No room for the 4th at Tumble Creek, the 11th at Lost Dunes, or something from Old Mac or Sebonack on my side of the ledger; and nothing from Lost Farm or Austin Golf Club or Old Sandwich on Bill and Ben's side.

[Tom_Doak]

During the regrassing of Streamsong 7 is the green being softened so putts from the top shelf down remain on the green?

Are you talking about the Blue course, and not the Red course hole discussed here?


I did suggest they soften that green a bit, but my understanding was they didn't want to change it.  Kyle Harris would know for sure.

[John Kavanaugh]

I am talking about the blue. Damn.

[Jim Franklin]

There are countless eclectic course threads here, but I could not find one for modern courses, allowing more than one hole per architect.  Perhaps a bit easier to decide on, but still one I would be more interested in seeing.

Here's a shot at one:  nine holes by Coore & Crenshaw, nine by me, but eighteen different courses.  Feel free to substitute as you wish.


1 - 4 - Cuscowilla
2 - 5 - Talking Stick (North)
3 - 4 - Tara Iti
4 - 4 - The Loop (Black)
5 - 3 - Streamsong (Blue)
6 - 4 - Pacific Dunes
7 - 5 - Streamsong (Red)
8 - 4 - The Renaissance Club
9 - 4 - Trinity Forest


10- 5 - Rock Creek
11- 4 - Bandon Trails
12- 4 - Ballyneal
13- 3 - Barnbougle Dunes
14- 5 - Sand Hills
15- 4 - Friars Head
16- 3 - Cabot Cliffs
17- 4 - Dismal River
18- 5 - Kapalua (Plantation)


Most of these were nominated in the voting for this thread, though I had to throw out the consensus favorite from Barnbougle, Ballyneal and Bandon Trails to make it work as there were not many nominations for holes 11, 12 and 13. 


This is par-74 with five par-5's and only three par-3's -- we did not have many par-3's nominated although I believe we have built some good ones between us.  I just didn't try too hard to make it par 71 or 72.

How about par 3 10th from Friars Head and use par 4 15th from Rock Creek? Love both of those holes. Would get it to a par 73.

[JC Jones]

The 10th at Friars Head is grossly under-appreciated.

[John Kavanaugh]

The 10th at Friars Head is grossly under-appreciated.

As much as the first at Cuscowilla? What is up with that choice?

[Mark Pritchett]

Te first at Cuscowilla is one of the best opening holes in golf. 


Cuscowilla is a grossly under-appreciated golf course.  Even here in the C&C echo chamber. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Te first at Cuscowilla is one of the best opening holes in golf. 


Cuscowilla is a grossly under-appreciated golf course.  Even here in the C&C echo chamber.

More proof that sometimes playing a course forms an incorrect opinion. I just couldn't get around the plastic barriers around the greens. Wouldn't be surprised if that issue has been fixed.


I also was shocked, disappointed and appalled at the slow play of the GCA outing. Bad mood city.

[Jeff Schley]

and nothing from Lost Farm or Austin Golf Club or Old Sandwich on Bill and Ben's side.

That should speak to their quality.  I really enjoyed LF immensely and strong par 3's. I love hole 4 at the tip of the property and very exposed to wind. My entire group got taken like kites in wind and 30-40 yards left and short. Needed a punch flow ball flight there. Also love hole 3 a masterful short par 4 with a wicked bunker in front and playing uphill to a green with slope.
For Austin GC I like hole 18, a long par 4 playing into the wind to an elevated green, but a nice backstop which I don't think is common for C&C holes.

[Adam Lawrence]

Been thinking about this. Slowly.


JCB 18th -- Robin Hiseman.

[John Emerson]

This is the 2nd time an inferior Nicklaus hole has beat out one from Wolf Point.

I guess I shouldn't have voted for the 6th at Pacific Dunes or I should have visited Ballyneal at some point.
I almost voted for the 4th at Barnbougle so I could vote for Wolf Point #6 but couldn't because of how much I liked Pacific Dunes' 6th.
Peace

How many folks have actually seen or played WP?  Ballpark %?  This may hinder peoples ability to critique it or vote for it if few have seen it.

[Adam Lawrence]

Alands Golfklubb, New Castle course, ninth: Philip Spogard

[Adam Lawrence]

West Cliffs, Portugal, seventh hole: Cynthia Dye

[Adam Lawrence]

Askernish, seventh hole: Ebert, Irvine, Haspell and (a bit) Lawrence, plus later work by Eric Iverson.

[Mark Pritchett]

Te first at Cuscowilla is one of the best opening holes in golf. 


Cuscowilla is a grossly under-appreciated golf course.  Even here in the C&C echo chamber.

More proof that sometimes playing a course forms an incorrect opinion. I just couldn't get around the plastic barriers around the greens. Wouldn't be surprised if that issue has been fixed.


I also was shocked, disappointed and appalled at the slow play of the GCA outing. Bad mood city.

It would be interesting to know how many rounds people have on the holes they nominated.  In my case, I have played Cuscowilla numerous times and not once in conjunction with a GCA Star Trek convention. 

[John Kavanaugh]

So that’s not where we met. The years melt together between moonshine and Churchill.

[Tom_Doak]

Askernish, seventh hole: Ebert, Irvine, Haspell and (a bit) Lawrence, plus later work by Eric Iverson.

Ithought that was Old Tom Morris and all you guys were just the medium.  Has the story officially changed?

[Adam Lawrence]

Askernish, seventh hole: Ebert, Irvine, Haspell and (a bit) Lawrence, plus later work by Eric Iverson.

Ithought that was Old Tom Morris and all you guys were just the medium.  Has the story officially changed?

I can't be held responsible for what others say

[Tom_Doak]

Askernish, seventh hole: Ebert, Irvine, Haspell and (a bit) Lawrence, plus later work by Eric Iverson.

Ithought that was Old Tom Morris and all you guys were just the medium.  Has the story officially changed?

I can't be held responsible for what others say

WTF?  Aren't you the one who wrote the story to begin with?

[Mark Pearce]

What a great track. I can see my picks it seems were garden variety and matched with popularity.
I don't see a Pete Dye hole on there?  We got to have Pete.  What is his best 10th hole?
EDIT:
ORWhat is Gil Hanse's best 10th hole and give Pete 17th either TPC Sawgrass or Whistling Straits.

On the European thread I nominated Hanse's 10th at Crail Craighead.  Brilliant driveable par 4.

[Garland Bayley]

What a great track. I can see my picks it seems were garden variety and matched with popularity.
I don't see a Pete Dye hole on there?  We got to have Pete.  What is his best 10th hole?
EDIT:
ORWhat is Gil Hanse's best 10th hole and give Pete 17th either TPC Sawgrass or Whistling Straits.

On the European thread I nominated Hanse's 10th at Crail Craighead.  Brilliant driveable par 4.

And, since Mark and I agree on everything,  I to nominated 10 at Crail Craighead.