[Kevin Pallier]

Why have golf course architects long been dudded in getting recognition with regard to the WGHOF?

It's not like the criteria is that prohibitive re: "Lifetime Achievement"
"To be considered for selection in the Contributor category, an individual must have impacted the game significantly in areas outside of the competitive arena (i.e. administrator, course architect, innovator, instructor, media, etc.)"

Surely we should be seeing more recognised for their contribution to the game?

To date - there are only 6 members through the "Lifetime Achievement" category
Ross (1977)
Robert Trent Jones (1987)
Allister MacKenzie (2005)
Charles Blair Macdonald (2007)
Pete Dye (2008)
Tillinghast (2015)

Who are the clear omissions? Why?

For mine - one HS Colt is a glaring error on behalf of the WGHOF

[Jeff Schley]

I admit I didn't know the WGHOF even had GCA's, but glad they do. OTM according to top100golfcourses is in the WGHOF as of 1976, so maybe you missed that?

First I totally agree with Colt being an omission to start as he did so many classic layouts in the UK and to a lesser extent in the US> He had a huge influence on what is thought of as great architecture and also mentored Alison.


Seth Raynor as he successfully did work after the CB partnership. I love Fisher's Island as one of my top 5 experiences on a golf course.

I'll also throw out Fazio and Nicklaus, as they were so prolific in the number of courses they produced.  They worked for what their era wanted and paid for, which was more on golf course community courses to sell homes than the architecture.  I don't particularly like Nicklaus courses myself, I do like Fazio more than most on here. He moved a lot of ground in general and was go to guy for many high end projects.  These guys, along with Pete Dye were so fortunate to live in an era where they could make such a fine living off of brand new designs.  Whereas today the new courses are so few and far between, so you better be a restoration specialist as that is what much of today's work is.

[Ian Andrew]

I added a few more to your list ...

Old Tom Morris (1976)
Donald Ross (1977)
Walter Travis (1979)
Robert Trent Jones (1987)
Alan Robertson (2001)
Ben Crenshaw (2002)
Allister MacKenzie (2005)
Charles Blair Macdonald (2007)
Pete Dye (2008)
Willie Park Jr. (2013)
AW Tillinghast (2015)

[Nigel Islam]

I admit I didn't know the WGHOF even had GCA's, but glad they do. OTM according to top100golfcourses is in the WGHOF as of 1976, so maybe you missed that?

First I totally agree with Colt being an omission to start as he did so many classic layouts in the UK and to a lesser extent in the US> He had a huge influence on what is thought of as great architecture and also mentored Alison.


Seth Raynor as he successfully did work after the CB partnership. I love Fisher's Island as one of my top 5 experiences on a golf course.

I'll also throw out Fazio and Nicklaus, as they were so prolific in the number of courses they produced.  They worked for what their era wanted and paid for, which was more on golf course community courses to sell homes than the architecture.  I don't particularly like Nicklaus courses myself, I do like Fazio more than most on here. He moved a lot of ground in general and was go to guy for many high end projects.  These guys, along with Pete Dye were so fortunate to live in an era where they could make such a fine living off of brand new designs.  Whereas today the new courses are so few and far between, so you better be a restoration specialist as that is what much of today's work is.

Nicklaus is already in.


I’d say Colt and Raynor should probably be in. Maxwell, Flynn, and Alison would be next tier for me. For me Tillie’s inclusion should have opened up the door for some of those names, but that has yet to materialize.

[David Stamm]

George Thomas

[Kevin Pallier]

Ian

Thanks for the updates - I was focusing moreso on the "lifetime achievement category" rather than golfing abilities but granted in most cases TWGHOF does mention their designer skills

I added a few more to your list ...

Old Tom Morris (1976) = Induction Category [Pinehurst]
Donald Ross (1977)
Walter Travis (1979) = Induction Category [Pinehurst]
Robert Trent Jones (1987)
Alan Robertson (2001) = Induction Category [Veterans] - no mention of golf course design in bio / achievements
Ben Crenshaw (2002) = Induction Category [PGA Tour Ballot] - Bill Coore is missing though?
Allister MacKenzie (2005)
Charles Blair Macdonald (2007)
Pete Dye (2008)
Willie Park Jr. (2013) = Induction Category [Veterans]
AW Tillinghast (2015)

[Ulrich Mayring]

It's hard to get onto that list, if you have the main body of your work outside the US.

Ulrich

[Niall C]

Ulrich

Absolutely but then it seems to me that Hall of Fame is a US concept that unfortunately (IMO) seems to be gathering traction in the UK. If you allow for Old Tom being in there for his GOM status, Allan Robertson for being the first professional and CBM for his GOM status in the US then it brings the list down somewhat.

To me what sums up the difficulty of non-US architects is Nigel's comment that Colt "should probably be in". From a global perspective you might argue the MacKenzie has had a bigger influence but I think that debateable. Ross obviously designed a lot of courses but they were nearly all in North America. He also didn't write as far as I'm aware until he wrote his autobiography. So whether Colt goes in as number one or two is debateable but surely there is no question that he should already be in ?

Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ulrich

Absolutely but then it seems to me that Hall of Fame is a US concept that unfortunately (IMO) seems to be gathering traction in the UK. If you allow for Old Tom being in there for his GOM status, Allan Robertson for being the first professional and CBM for his GOM status in the US then it brings the list down somewhat.

To me what sums up the difficulty of non-US architects is Nigel's comment that Colt "should probably be in". From a global perspective you might argue the MacKenzie has had a bigger influence but I think that debateable. Ross obviously designed a lot of courses but they were nearly all in North America. He also didn't write as far as I'm aware until he wrote his autobiography. So whether Colt goes in as number one or two is debateable but surely there is no question that he should already be in ?

Niall

Agreed a list of Architects list without Colt can hardly be taken seriously. 


I think Braid "should probably be in".

[Thomas Dai]

Herbert Fowler too.
atb

[Niall C]

Herbert Fowler too.
atb

Not so sure. Care to state the case ?

Niall

[jeffwarne]

Herbert Fowler too.
atb

Not so sure. Care to state the case ?

Niall

Eastward Ho
nuff said

[Niall C]

Does one great course (which presumably it is) get you in ? I think what I'm getting at is what is the criteria for entry ? With the likes of Colt, MacKenzie and Simpson there is a fair body of excellent work backed up by great or significant writing on gca. Is that the case for Fowler ?

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Ref Herbert Fowler, Jeff mentions Eastward Ho! There's also the likes of Walton Heath x 2, The Berkshire x 2, Westward Ho! (complete revision), Saunton x 2 (original layouts trashed during WW2), Beau Desert, Delemere Forest, Southerndow, Yelverton, plus some significant changes at Pebble Beach etc, etc etc.

There's also a comment by Bernard Darwin, written before the Fowler-Simpson partnership(?) saying something about Fowler being a genius and the most original of all the architects.
atb

[Sandy Smith]

The WGHOF has no credibility. It counts the Players Championship as a professional major.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'd add a developer or four. My suggestion is.


George Crump
James Tufts
Samuel Morse
Mike Keiser

[Sandy Smith]

Ernie Vosler was a helluva developer too.

[Pete_Pittock]

Vossler.


Peter Thomson is also a member.  I doubt more than a couple of the 19th/20th century architects will be added. Colt, Fowler and Stanley Thompson would seem more favored.  Keiser will likely make it at some point, but Alice Dye won't. For the veteran's category I have been advocating for Tony Lema for a number of years. 

[Matthew Rose]

Did anyone else read the thread title in Gary Player's voice?

I've seen those commercials way too many times.

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