The Bay vs. Monterey question

[Mark Fedeli]

Heading out to San Fran and Monterey in late April for a golf trip. Cal Club, Pasa, and MPCC are the main destinations, and we’ll try to get a time on Pebble the day before.


My question is: for our remaining days, or if Pebble doesn’t work out, should we stay in Monterey and do Spyglass, Spanish Bay, Pac Grove, etc.? Or go for Menlo, Claremont, Meadow Club back up in the Bay Area?


Very different kinds of golf! I’ll likely enjoy playing the Bay Area courses more from an architectural standpoint, but Monterey is beautiful and the ocean is right there and yada yada. There are so many conflicting views on Spy/Spanish/Poppy that it’s hard to know how to feel about them. And not a ton of info on Menlo/Meadow/Claremont.


Thanks for the help.

[Kalen Braley]

Pac Dunes?  That would be interesting given its 500 or so miles away 

Assuming you meant Pacific Grove, and yes the back 9 would be the best value play for the entire trip.

As for what to do, its really personal preference.  If its all about the golf and the golf only, then Monterey is the spot to be.  But if you want to take in other stuff too, then its hard to beat San Fran..

[Mark Fedeli]

Yes, sorry, Pac Grove. Fixed it.


It’s all about golf. Just me and a buddy. I’ve been to the region for vacations but not for golf. Have played Pasa, though.


You’re saying if it’s all about golf I should play the other Pebble resort courses and not the Mackenzie courses restored by Doak/Urbina and DeVries? Or the Kyle Phillips design? That’s kind of the opposite advice of what I expected.

[Kalen Braley]

Yes, sorry, Pac Grove. Fixed it.


It’s all about golf. Just me and a buddy. I’ve been to the region for vacations but not for golf. Have played Pasa, though.


You’re saying if it’s all about golf I should play the other Pebble resort courses and not the Mackenzie courses restored by Doak/Urbina and DeVries? Or the Kyle Phillips design? That’s kind of the opposite advice of what I expected.

Full disclosure, I haven't played the other ones you mentioned in the bay area, so I can't say yea or nay to that specifically.

My only point was the Monterey area is just pure golf IMO in a unique and stunning setting, even if you have to "settle" for Pebble, Spyglass, Spanish, and the back 9 at PG.

[Mark Fedeli]

Oh yes. Understood. Thank you. It’s a tough decision for sure.

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

I don't know which of the possible courses you mention in the SF and Monterey areas you have or have not played before. I am a big fan of the Meadow Club and would encourage you to play it if you have not already done so. Claremont is also well worth playing. It is one of the best (and toughest) par-68 courses you are likely to come across.

DT

[Mike Schott]

I've been fortunate to play The Meadow Club and it's worth the trip across the Golden Gate. It's a wonderful course that has been carefully restored by Mike DeVries. Not to mention being MacKenzie's first US course. It's a golfer's club with many members who play at a high level.

[Adam Clayman]

Bay; Cal Club, SFGC, Meadow Club. In that order.


Peninsula; Spyglass, Spanish, PG.

[Daryl David]

Bay; Cal Club, SFGC, Meadow Club. In that order.


Peninsula; Spyglass, Spanish, PG.

+1  that’s the ticket.

[Kyle Henderson]

My personal ranking:

Cypress Point   10
Pebble Beach 9


7-8ish range in order of preference:
Pasatiempo
MPCC Dunes
MPCC Shore
Cal club


5-7ish range:
Spyglass front 9
Menlo
Poppy Hills
Spyglass back 9

[Lov Goel]

Having played all of them many times, I understand the difficulty of the choice you're faced with!


However, if you've never played the courses in Monterey, they tend to be harder to get to if you are married/as part of a vacation.  One of the best trips I ever took was with a buddy when we were both just starting our legal careers and we did Spanish Bay and Spyglass Hill.  Couldn't get on to be pebble, but had a wonderful time.


Meadow, Claremont, Etc are wonderful, but tend to be easier to get to if you visit the Bay Area regularly for work.

[Mark Fedeli]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It's looking like we'll be playing Menlo, Meadow Club, MPCC, Pebble, Pasatiempo, and Cal Club. If anything falls through in the Bay Area we'll have Claremont as the first back-up. And if anything falls through in Monterey we'll have Spyglass and/or Pacific Grove.


There's something about Spyglass that absolutely rubs me the wrong way, but combined with a back-9 Pacific Grove palate cleanser, I'm sure I'll survive. 

[Matt_Cohn]

I'm interested in what rubs you the wrong way about Spyglass given that you've not been there.

[Mark Fedeli]

I'm interested in what rubs you the wrong way about Spyglass given that you've not been there.

Well, the first 5 holes sound great, but after that, playing in corridors of trees with uphill approaches and ponds, plus comparisons to Augusta, a designer that doesn't inspire me, and a reputation for being the hardest course in Monterey — none of that is my personal preference, and none of it sounds like anything I haven't seen a bunch before. For a big golf vacation, I'd rather see something I don't see a lot of, or play a style of game I don't often get to play. But, I chose to make it our #1 back-up behind MPCC and Pebble, so I'm keeping an open mind.

[Lov Goel]

I'm interested in what rubs you the wrong way about Spyglass given that you've not been there.

Well, the first 5 holes sound great, but after that, playing in corridors of trees with uphill approaches and ponds, plus comparisons to Augusta, a designer that doesn't inspire me, and a reputation for being the hardest course in Monterey — none of that is my personal preference, and none of it sounds like anything I haven't seen a bunch before. For a big golf vacation, I'd rather see something I don't see a lot of, or play a style of game I don't often get to play. But, I chose to make it our #1 back-up behind MPCC and Pebble, so I'm keeping an open mind.

If you do end up playing, here's a plug for why you might be surprised:  I haven't heard a lot of reasonable comparisons of this place to Augusta, but could certainly see why you would find them off-putting.  It does have the difficulty reputation, but I think people forget that the easier holes really do provide birdie opportunities, especially if played from the correct set of tees.  For what it's worth there, pick the set of tees where the par 3s are a comfortable distance for you and you'll have a great time.  It's true that there are number of uphill approaches (which might be the best comparisons to ANGC), but there's something about this place that I haven't really seen anywhere else but Monterey.  The entire area is one of the few places in the world where you'll see a forest basically fall straight into the ocean.  The scenery, topography, and and playing conditions are pretty unique, even if you can make the argument that the holes might be similar to others you've seen elsewhere.  I also doubt you'll have seen much that's like the first 5 holes, and especially anything like the 4th.  Very unique green complex.  It's great you're keeping an open mind, and I hope (if you play) you're pleasantly surprised by the round.  It has grown on me as I've played it more often


Happy hitting, and let us know when you're in the bay.  Perhaps we can meet for a beverage to hear your take on your games so far.

[Mark Fedeli]

Thanks, Lov. You pretty much summed up the reasons why I'm more than willing to keep an open mind. I know I could do a lot worse than having to spend a day at Spyglass. I'll have more to add once I know which courses are locked in. We're still a couple months out from the trip.

[J_ Crisham]

My personal ranking:

Cypress Point   10
Pebble Beach 9


7-8ish range in order of preference:
Pasatiempo
MPCC Dunes
MPCC Shore
Cal club


5-7ish range:
Spyglass front 9
Menlo
Poppy Hills
Spyglass back 9

Kyle,
      Our views are pretty similar but I am curious why you don't have SFGC in the 7-8 range? It's pretty damn good.

[Kyle Henderson]

My personal ranking:

Cypress Point   10
Pebble Beach 9


7-8ish range in order of preference:
Pasatiempo
MPCC Dunes
MPCC Shore
Cal club


5-7ish range:
Spyglass front 9
Menlo
Poppy Hills
Spyglass back 9

Kyle,
      Our views are pretty similar but I am curious why you don't have SFGC in the 7-8 range? It's pretty damn good.

The initial post didn’t mention SFGC as a possible venue, but I would agree with the 7-8 range for that course, the front nine being especially strong.


Men look is the course that deserves a bit more recognition on this discussion board. It could hold its head up high in any golf neighborhood from SF to Los Angeles to Melbourne.