Worst green I've seen -- #4 at Spyglass

[Niall C]

Adam


Let me temper my comments by saying I played it once about 4 years ago. What made the 4th stand out was that it was one of the few (perhaps only ?) green that really suggested a particular angle of approach was required/best. Perhaps with further play I might have discovered more subtlety in that respect. In butchering the 4th hole I drove duck hooked into the left rough so never really got into any kind of position at all. I would have been as well walking the hole with the ball in my pocket.


Matt


As I remember the other thread, I asked a question and you offered a non-answer so I'm not sure you agreed or disagreed.


Niall

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt
As I remember the other thread, I asked a question and you offered a non-answer so I'm not sure you agreed or disagreed.
Niall



Ack! What was the question? I'll do better this time.

[Adam Clayman]

Niall, Understanding you've only had the op to butcher her once, aspects that make it better than most is... Each individual has the chance to interpret how best to play the hole. Starting with the diagonal cross carry, every golfer decides how much they can attempt to bite. Upon failure, the hole still allows for a creative exciting possible recovery.


So, the accepted angle of approach is not dictated by the architect, nor is it constant.


To me, this is what separates the 4th from anything close to average. Or any hole with this ;level of elasticirty.

[JESII]

Agree that #4 is a really cool hole...with the green being the icing on the cake.


My two plays were back to back 20 years ago so not sure what's changed...and honestly wouldn't have thought the front pad would be a good hole location anyway...but I'm sure the pin is there on rare occasions.

[Dan Kelly]

Nothing like reading a good old timey GCA thread...

Yes. Nothing like it to make a man feel both old and sad -- and lucky to still be able to read it. So many of the contributors are no longer with us -- by choice or (tragically) otherwise.


On the plus side: NOTHING has changed at the Minnesota State Fair -- still the best state fair (in our state, or anywhere).


Epilogue: Forgot to add "GO, TWINS!"

[archie_struthers]

 


Having a nice GCA binge here tonight and had been following Rick's thread here with interest. Given that some people love and some people hate this green, it's probably quirky enough for me.


Really wanted to build a crazy green like this on the fifth hole at Twisted Dune and didn't pull the trigger.  The cant of the green is so different, which adds to the difficulty. Just love the idea of having to hit further to get the right angle on a fairly short hole, particularly if its bad if you hit it offline and the right distance. The 12th at Pine Valley utilizes a similar architectural strategy in that the green is longer than narrow. The longer the tee shot the easier the second, but it has to be straight also. Nice design short hole.


 

[Niall C]

Adam

I think you misunderstand me as I actually agree with every word you say about the 4th. In the same way a diagonal hazard invites the player to pick his line off the tee to get maximum advantage (or as much advantage as they dare to go for), the approach to the green again asks the player to pick a line and length from the tee rather than just blooter it on a particular line.

I think it's a wonderful hole where it's like a sliding scale in terms of favourable positions rather than some binary choice if that makes sense. In that sense it stood out from the rest of the course. If you told me some other architect designed this hole in isolation to the rest of the holes I'd happily believe you. The rest of the course was perfectly pleasant and enjoyable but not nearly as good as I'd been expecting.

Niall

[Rick Shefchik]

With the benefit of 16 years of experience playing many, many more courses, I can now state definitively that the 4th green at Spyglass is NOT the worst green I've seen -- though the front hole location on that green might still be the most difficult I've had to play to. Now that my skills are eroding and my scores are climbing, I'm much more of a mindset to appreciate and embrace a challenging shot for its own sake. Who wouldn't want to hit a shot to a green shaped something like this?

[Sean Leary]

I haven’t played it in a number of years but it seemed to me that the green had gotten narrower over time from older pictures I had seen. Liked the hole but thought the green was just a bit too narrow.