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Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Coore and Crenshaw
« on: February 23, 2022, 05:33:48 PM »
Many many years ago I played the Plantation course at Kapalua. I had a question about the design of one of the holes and I wrote Ben Crenshaw a letter never really expecting a reply. To my surprise I got home from work one day and my wife tells me I got a letter from Ben Crenshaw.  He sent me a very nice letter explaining the design, a letter I still have today.


What roles do Bill and Ben play in the design work?
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If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

archie_struthers

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2022, 08:49:22 AM »
 8)


Caddied for him a lot at Pine Valley. One day he played awful , really awful . The next day he shot 69 in the morning round. Was just as pleasant to be with day 1....quite a guy
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2022, 09:35:00 AM »
I can't speak to their US work, but I stayed in the same hotel on Hainan Island as they did.  They told me that Bill spent 140 nights there during the construction of Shanqin Bay, and Ben spent 0.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2022, 11:14:00 AM »
Quote from: archie_struthers on February 24, 2022, 08:49:22 AM
8)


Caddied for him a lot at Pine Valley. One day he played awful , really awful . The next day he shot 69 in the morning round. Was just as pleasant to be with day 1....quite a guy
Archie,


Totally off topic, but just wondered if you ever caddied for Bob Lewis?


I know that at the Walker Cup he had the same caddy when he shot the competitive course record (the year before I think).
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Tim Weiman

Bill Seitz

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2022, 04:21:28 PM »
I've never met Ben Crenshaw, but his mother in law was my fifth grade teacher.  Julie and I are from the same small town, which is to say small corporate boundary/population that essentially just melts into the rest of the L.A. sprawl. 
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2022, 09:45:13 PM »
This is just ridiculous chatter. They are very actively involved, period.  Follow them on social media and you'll see how much traveling they do.


Last week Bill was at Macarthur in Florida with construction under way.  A friend of mine walked around the site and said with what he saw, it will be the best course in southern Florida.
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Edward Glidewell

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2022, 10:27:03 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on February 24, 2022, 09:45:13 PM
This is just ridiculous chatter. They are very actively involved, period.  Follow them on social media and you'll see how much traveling they do.


Last week Bill was at Macarthur in Florida with construction under way.  A friend of mine walked around the site and said with what he saw, it will be the best course in southern Florida.


Better than Seminole?
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archie_struthers

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2022, 10:40:37 PM »
 ;D


Did caddy for Bob ,  but his regular guy was Joe Falkenstein, RIP....Lewis could really play and such a tiny guy. Had to have an oversized heart
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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2022, 11:30:06 PM »
Quote from: Edward Glidewell on February 24, 2022, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on February 24, 2022, 09:45:13 PM
This is just ridiculous chatter. They are very actively involved, period.  Follow them on social media and you'll see how much traveling they do.


Last week Bill was at Macarthur in Florida with construction under way.  A friend of mine walked around the site and said with what he saw, it will be the best course in southern Florida.
Sounds like OTM, apparently several times he said "When the good Lord made this land he had gowf on his mind@


Better than Seminole?
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Rob Marshall

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 07:08:46 AM »
What my question really was or what I meant was, who does what? Does Ben do routing and Bill focus on construction? Vise versa? What are the roles? Is it different every job. You don't hear much about Ben's work on this site.
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If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Steve Lang

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2022, 08:53:26 AM »
 8)  I remember a narrative lore that Bill walks the animal paths and gets the initial lay of the land issues sorted out, while Ben sees larger perspectives of shot values while they pick their way through the routing options together... whatever they do, seems to have worked out over many moons...
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2022, 09:45:51 AM »
Before they took the job at Hidden Creek, Bill walked the property for some three weeks. He conferred with Ben and told the owner, Roger Hansen, that there was a golf course there.


More than once someone told me that they saw Ben on his hands and knees shaping a green.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 11:10:51 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Kyle Harris

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2022, 10:57:40 AM »
There remains beauty in the unknown and unknowable.
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Tim_Weiman

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 04:21:32 PM »
Quote from: archie_struthers on February 24, 2022, 10:40:37 PM
;D


Did caddy for Bob ,  but his regular guy was Joe Falkenstein, RIP....Lewis could really play and such a tiny guy. Had to have an oversized heart
Thanks, Archie. Yes, Bob could play. Not many guys won more matches in the Walker Cup history than he did.
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Tim Weiman

Joel_Stewart

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2022, 09:06:28 PM »
There's a story that a group of women members at NGLA saw a man standing in the trees on the 3rd hole and called the pro shop. An assistant pro went out and it was Bill Coore just staring at the Alps hole.



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Jeff Schley

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 04:16:14 AM »
Met Ben once at AGC and was a true gentlemen, which I would be shocked if anyone met him and said otherwise. Also ordered stuff from C&C store and they included his book "A feel for the game" complimentary which I thought was very nice.
Crenshaw is like class, had to define but you know it when you see it.  I haven't met Bill Coore, but sure the same could be said of him as well. Great team and example of a true partnership.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 06:11:07 AM by Jeff Schley »
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mike_beene

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2022, 05:39:54 PM »
What I observed when they did our renovation: they would come see the work at different times. One of them would suggest a bunker and put it in to see what other thought. Crenshaw spent hours staring at a single hole making sure a bunker was visible, watching people play the hole. They yielded to each other and both spent a lot of time on property.
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A.G._Crockett

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2022, 08:41:25 AM »
So far, there seems to no no clear consensus on the relative roles, with anecdotes that point in several directions.


So maybe it’s just like a good “marriage” in which the partners deal with situations and tasks as needed, without counting hours or miles or any of that. 


Whatever they’ve worked out, I hope they stay at it for awhile yet.
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"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Kalen Braley

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2022, 12:55:28 PM »
Quote from: A.G._Crockett on February 27, 2022, 08:41:25 AM
So far, there seems to no no clear consensus on the relative roles, with anecdotes that point in several directions.

So maybe it’s just like a good “marriage” in which the partners deal with situations and tasks as needed, without counting hours or miles or any of that. 

Whatever they’ve worked out, I hope they stay at it for awhile yet.


AG,

Agreed wholeheartedly.  I don't know why who does what is relevant as long as they are pumping out courses like Friars Head and Bandon Trails and restorations like Old Town.  The relationship certainly seems to be working for them, and the end results speaks for themselves, over and over and over again...end of discussion I would think.
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David_Tepper

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Re: Coore and Crenshaw
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2022, 07:21:42 PM »
Speaking of C&C, here is a 2:38 video with Bill Coore talking about the design process while on site at Streamsong:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z50AHMf5IA
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