Chambers Bay reopening on April 1, 2019

[Matthew Essig]

The "best possible experience" at a "public" golf course would include cart paths so the vast majority of golfers would have access to it.

There is a difference between "have access" and "choose to access" . The vast majority of golfers have access to Chambers Bay.

C'mon you know that is a lie.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. When did experience become a synonym for accessibility?


They know the experience they want the golfers to have when they play. Walking is a part of it.

[Jon Wiggett]

Bn Sms,


I think there maybe some terminology problems in that when someone say 'pure fescue' this logically means 100% fescue not 90% or 95% which is why I generally refer to a 'fescue/links sward' or 'links sward' A good balance for this would be 50% fescue, 25% bent and 25% poa though this will vary a bit through seasonal changes with more poa/bent in the cooler, wetter seasons and more fescue in the drier, warmer seasons. So when people talk about 'pure fescue' (meaning 100%) its not difficult to see why it would fail.


I think Don hits on an important point in that when you mess with the soil too much you destroy a lot of the microbial life which is vital to a healthy growing medium and disrupt the natural water household of the soil. I also wonder if a big factor to the greens failing is the build and the fact they almost certainly do not have sufficient rootzone (i.e. 3'+) where as the fairways almost certainly do.


Lastly, I think probably the most insightful comment in John's post was that the poa which inevitably appears in the sward produces a poor putting surface to start with but over the course of several years adapts to produce a decent putting surface. The good 'links' swards that are found in the UK are the product of many years of grasses adapting to the local climate. Even seed of plants chosen for their good putting attributes will take time to adapt to the local climate and I do wonder if much of the problem comes from trying to produce the surface that plays like a long established one without giving it the time.


Patience is a virtue.




Garland,


blanket drainage is done in most new builds these days and is not exclusively USGA. I am sure TD will correct me if I am wrong but I believe he does not advocate the use of them on sites which already have good natural drainage but I suspect it is always a case of whether the client can be persuaded to leave it out. However, the blanket layer is not a problem if it is deep enough i.e. at least 3 foot.


Jon

[Tom Bacsanyi]

This is a great thread.  Jon, what were the percentages of each species planted at your club originally and where are those percentages now?

[Jon Wiggett]

Tom,


it depends which club.


At Buergenstock I inherited a set of greens that were 70% poa and 30% fescue which through overseeding with a 98% fescue to 2% browntop by weight led to the sward altering to about 40% fescue, 20% bent to 40% poa. There was one green that had no water at all other than from a bowser which was well over 50% fescue at the start and with overseeding the bent reduced poa to about 25%.


At Leuk we seeded with 100% fescue but there were three important factors that influenced that decision.


Firstly, we had a semi-arid climate meaning we could burn out any unwanted grasses including poa early on in the season. The climate also meant we could still achieve stimp readings in excess of 10' even when mowing at 7mm.


Secondly, the soil was free draining and always stayed moist below the 3 foot mark so fescue always had water available so irrigation was not needed to excess.


Thirdly, the irrigation water was taken from a lake with the intake point set 3 foot below a raft meaning the water temperature was usually quite close to the rootzone temperature and so did not cause a growth stop which would have been the case had we used cold mains water.


Due to this it was possible to maintain a pure fescue sward.


Where I am now I sowed with a standard fescue mix but knew that because the rootzone was been mixed with local soil and sand that was not altered there was plenty of native seed that included browntop bent.


Presently, I have 50% fescue to 20% browntop with the rest made up of a mix of other grasses and some moss. The greens putt slow but then again most players are higher handicapper and the greens have some serious movement on them becoming scary if they get quick.


Hope this answers you query.

[Ruediger Meyer]

So that's why they didn't answer my enquiry for a tee time. Thanks for the heads up, Scott.

[Scott Weersing]

It looks like Chambers Bay will be back open in April.


I received an email today, "Experience the New Chambers Bay."


April 3 was the first day available for tee times online.


I wonder if they made any other changes besides to the greens. I could not find any photos taken post October.


Anyone walk by on the path?

[Dan Gallaway]

Walked there yesterday.  Nothing jumped out as far as changes.  Tee boxes didn’t look like they had 4 months of healing, kind of beat up still.  Greens “looked” great though!  They are pretty excited about the prospect of some more pinball locations on a few of the greens.  Didn’t get the chance to explore that idea further.

[Scott Weersing]

I am not sure the tee boxes would grow in all that much between October and January. Too cold and wet for most grasses. And I am not sure that overseeding with rye like TPC Scotsdale would help.

[Pete_Pittock]

Time for a title change. The course will officially reopen on April 1st (no foolin') with Seattle U hosting a college tournament, but there has been some outside play for some large groups that had pre-booked last year.


I have been chatting with a college coach who was raving about the poa annua greens at Bandon Dunes. His school will be in the tournament so will be looking for feedback.

[Scott Weersing]

I think the new greens will be great. And there won't be the problem of where does the green end and the fairway begin.

[Matthew Essig]

I guess the lower tee on 9 was well-received during the US Open cause they've expanded/added more lower tee boxes


https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvhy06LFI8H/

[Steve Okula]

Presently, I have 50% fescue to 20% browntop with the rest made up of a mix of other grasses and some moss. The greens putt slow but then again most players are higher handicapper and the greens have some serious movement on them becoming scary if they get quick.

Perhaps this is the reason the fescue/bent swards are generally more successful in the British Isles than in the US. The Brits don't make the same demands for green speeds as the Americans do. You can't mow fescue and browntop at 3mm in order to get 12' stimpmeter reads.

[Pete_Pittock]

  Report is the greens are true, but a bit soft and slow in comparison to what they  experience in college golf competitions.
All in all they definitely improve the overall experience.
  Seems like a birdie-fest. UCLA and Fresno State pulling away, more than -25 thru most of the second round. The course they are playing is just feet short of 7,000 yards and #1 is playing at a par five.
Tournament link:

https://birdiefire.com/tournament/55361/    Note that the hole ranking is different, being ranked 1 means it is the easiest in relation to par. No rain in forecast, minimal wind


Hidetori Yoshihara (UCLA) leads with  67-62.  Another 62 posted by Tommy Stephenson of Fresno State.

[Christian Newton]

I played Chambers this weekend and Pete's take is spot-on.

The new greens look great and are successfully integrated into their surrounds. They played true, but were a touch on the slow side. Fixing ball marks it was easy to feel how wet the sand just below was. I got the impression they wanted to get them rolling faster. The tees were in good shape. All-in-all, it was a better experience than last year.

I noticed no shaping changes, but my well-informed caddie said a few contour changes were made on 17, reducing some of the roll-off risk at the high point on the far right edge of the green.

Cheers,
Christian

[Richard Choi]

I finally had a chance to play Chambers with new greens and took some photos.

1st Green:
This was one of the problematic greens where there was always as much sand as grass. The grass coverage is much more consistent now. Of course it comes at sacrificing some strategic play as the ball I hit that landed just inside the front right green used to release to the middle of the green was stopped just inside the front after making a ball mark (used to be a very rare thing at Chambers).

Close up of greens:

It is definitely not pure poa. I believe the bluer patch is bent grass (not 100% sure), which gives the entire greens a very blotchy appearance. There is also a LOT of seedheads unlike many mature courses with poa greens, which made putts pretty bumpy.I also would swear that greens did not break as much as they used to even though they were rolling just as quick or quicker. I missed most of my putts on the high side all day long.

Another previously problematic green, 4th:The grass coverage is even and no more bald spots!

And the green that initiated this whole change, the 7th:This was the most problematic green on Chambers. Due to it being located just under the steep embankment to the east, it did not get much light and they were never able to get fescue to grow consistently on this green. It was closed down multiple times leading up to US Open due to lack of grass. Now it is perfectly covered with no bald spots. And since the green is so high above the fairway, there is no real impact to its strategy either. If anything justifies this change, this green is it.

A similar problem child - 8th:

Problematic entrance to 10th green:Because of the narrow entrance where everyone had to walk through, fescue really had problems growing due to heavy traffic. The entrance is now healthy and beautiful. However, I will probably never try to hit another low half-shot 3 wood from 150 yards for fun.

And the final problem child, short par 4, 12th:
This green also had problems with growth as its punchbowl shape with trees surrounding it made it hard for light to cover it evenly. It is no longer a problem. The green still has a lot of fire as it has probably the most severe internal contour of all the greens at Chambers.

Overall, I think the change is fine. It certainly makes the course "prettier". Due to seedheads, the putts are as bumpy as they were before with sand, so no real change there. Even though they are trying to keep it firm, ball marks are now all over the place (and man, are people bad with fixing them) and lot of the bump strategy has been smothered. Thankfully, the sideboards are still mostly fescue and hitting them do result in very hard bounces, so a lot of strategy elements are still there.

I look forward to seeing how the greens develop as they mature.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks Rich.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

There's bentgrass contamination in their poa!!!!


Anyway, greens look great.


Has anyone been on Old Macdonald recently?  I remember playing there in 2010 and the pure fescue greens were immaculate.  I'm wondering where they are at now with poa contamination and how well the species are melding together. 

[William_G]

Tom,


Just was at Old Mac, and there are now small poa heads coming in.


These small heads used to be removed at Trails in a Poa picking program.


Trails is now good with it's Poa and I give Old Mac 5 years until the greens are all Poa.


Sheep Ranch will eventually be Poa as well although it is being hydro-seeded now with Fescue.


cheers