#12 at Santa Ana

[Matt_Cohn]

Ever play a hole that you felt you were supposed to like, and should like, but just...didn't? On a course that I really enjoyed overall, #12 at Santa Ana did that for me. And based off one round, I can't tell if I'm missing something or if the hole just doesn't quite work.


It's par-3, 223 yards from the back tees and proportionally shorter from others. The green slopes away from the tee and is surrounded by tightly-mown mounds that are approximately flagstick height. The opening between the mounds is at the front-left part of the green, so although the green appears straight-on to the tee in these pictures, it plays as a left-to-right angle. (Note that most of the tees are skewed to the right as well.)

















My thoughts after playing the hole once:

• The opening between the mounds is quite close to trees and OB. But if I hit it right, I either hit into the face of the mound or ricochet off the back of it and over the green. It would be pure luck to hit at the right spot to dribble over that mound and onto the green. (My friend tried to show me how that could happen, but I missed the spot twice from 50 yards, so....)
• My favorite greens are ones where different hole locations change the entire complexion of the hole. Santa Ana has 17 of those, one reason I think the course is really fun! This is the only green on the course where I would probably play the same shot regardless of hole location.
• It didn't feel like I had a way to play the shot—even if I hit my best, it was still up to luck. I might end up worse than if I'd skanked one up there and let the random bounces off the mounds take over. It's like a punchbowl you can't get into because you're coming at it diagonally, across mounds, with a mid-to-long iron, on firm greens.

Change my mind?


PS, pictures of other holes. Overview and #4:



#8 green (at the end of a par-5: 80 yards of fun!):



#17 green (short par-3):

[Tom_Doak]

The green looks like it's inspired by one of the greens at The Loop, #4 Black, which is a short par-4.  I've heard the flip side of the complaints there, that the contours are weird for such a short shot, but I love that green.


You weren't kidding though about it being close to the out of bounds!  I'm amazed they would put it right up against a fence and a road like that [although maybe there is no traffic on the road beside the hole?].  The proximity of the boundary combined with the length does change my perception of the green considerably.  It's a very high demand for most golfers, though it looks like you're just going to make four if you bail right, which is what most golfers are going to make on a 220-yard par-3, anyway.


The rest of the pictures looked very good, BTW.

[Kyle Harris]

I probably won't be able to change your mind but I hit an approach that was fairly authoritative in it's intent to go left without even threatening the OB. In fact, I didn't recall there being OB anywhere on this hole.

I then over-thought the chip shot and two-putted from about 12 feet above the hole.


I do recall taking a club shorter with the intent of bouncing into the bowl and perhaps that is why I didn't remember or factor the OB risk - but perhaps that is the point? Mountain Lake's biarritz is somewhat similar in the sense that you bring a much narrower target into play the further you attempt to fly the ball. On this hole, the widest portion of the effective landing zone is just begging for a low approach that feeds to the hole.

What's wrong with challenging a precisely carried 210 yard shot v. a accurately considered running shot which carries 175 yards and feeds to the green?

[Matt_Cohn]

What's wrong with challenging a precisely carried 210 yard shot v. a accurately considered running shot which carries 175 yards and feeds to the green?

I didn't feel like the first options was really viable? But overall I would say that this is indeed my question. I think it's a virtue to find fun in every golf hole you play, not to find their faults! Am I being a typical American good player, disliking a hole because I can't get a guaranteed reward for hitting the ball exactly how I want to hit it? Or is there something about this particular hole that isn't great?

[Kyle Harris]

What's wrong with challenging a precisely carried 210 yard shot v. a accurately considered running shot which carries 175 yards and feeds to the green?

I didn't feel like the first options was really viable? But overall I would say that this is indeed my question. I think it's a virtue to find fun in every golf hole you play, not to find their faults! Am I being a typical American good player, disliking a hole because I can't get a guaranteed reward for hitting the ball exactly how I want to hit it? Or is there something about this particular hole that isn't great?

Perhaps neither or both?

I am struggling to remember if there may have been an alternate angle from which this hole could play. If the tees were setup closer to the property line maybe that was why I didn't sense the OB.

I have the yardage book on my coffee table so I'll have to check when I get home.

[David Ober]

Matt, I've played the whole many times with many golfers (usually scratch or below), and I can't recall a single ball hit OB from any tee we've ever played.


My take on the hole: The green is too small for a punch bowl (if that's what it is rightly called). The internal contours are too sever for a green of that size. Make the green 30% - 50% larger, and I love it.

[JESII]

Definitely a cool looking hole to me...I wonder if it would be more palatable if it received  right handed draw as opposed a fade...

[James Brown]

Looks like to me that left of the hole is a drainage channel, not a road and the road is long, which doesn’t seem like much of a safety issue, given the length of the hole.


Also, I find this course to be amazing open with minimal trees.  Was this always the case or did they removed a bunch?

[Derek Dirksen]

From Jay:

1. If you think that green complex is "interesting" or polarizing -- you should have seen what we shaped originally!!

2. That hole has been the most polarizing since opening. Many golfers, raters, writers have noted that as their favorite hole. Others wanted it blown up day one. After multiple plays most people seem to appreciate it more.

3. There are multiple angles and distances to play from and depending on the tee / pin you can change strategy.

4. While the hole is more "do or die" than other holes, there are options on 12.

Back left flag = better right than left / better to use right slope.

Front flag = better to miss long or right than left.

Middle flags = better to use left slope.

The wind can impact club selection, ball flight, and whether you die ball into slope or ride the slope for greater kick.

[Derek Dirksen]

Looks like to me that left of the hole is a drainage channel, not a road and the road is long, which doesn’t seem like much of a safety issue, given the length of the hole.


Also, I find this course to be amazing open with minimal trees.  Was this always the case or did they removed a bunch?

You are correct.  Left of the hole is a canal.  Behind the green left is the back tee for hole 6,  which is 3 to 4 feet higher than green the floor.  Back right of green is also a tee for hole 6 which is 2 to 3 feet higher than the green floor.  In between the 2 tees is a collection area.  One would really have to crush a tee shot to put OB in play off the back.  OB left really should not come into play because of the trees.  The trees left had to stay to block views views into and out of the course.  There are some shady apartments on the other side of the canal.  Because of the trees the tees couldn't have shifted left.  If I remember correctly there is a fwd tee to the left.  Left of green there has to be 25 to 35 foot of ground between green edge and treeline that will kick everything right towards the green. 

They took a ton of trees out before construction.  It was an over grown mess before.  It really opened up the view corridors tremendously!!!

[Matt_Cohn]

From Jay:

1. If you think that green complex is "interesting" or polarizing -- you should have seen what we shaped originally!!

As Verne Lundquist would say, "Oh, my, goodness." Care to share?


2. That hole has been the most polarizing since opening. Many golfers, raters, writers have noted that as their favorite hole. Others wanted it blown up day one. After multiple plays most people seem to appreciate it more.

3. There are multiple angles and distances to play from and depending on the tee / pin you can change strategy.

4. While the hole is more "do or die" than other holes, there are options on 12.

True, and it's not like it's impossible to get up and down.

Back left flag = better right than left / better to use right slope.

Front flag = better to miss long or right than left.

Middle flags = better to use left slope.

The wind can impact club selection, ball flight, and whether you die ball into slope or ride the slope for greater kick.

[Derek Dirksen]

Matt,


The first rendition of the 12th green was really wild.  We had what is the current green plus a front upper plateau that was maybe 1500 sq ft.  That front plateau was at least 4 to 5 foot higher than the bottom bowl.  We had it pitching right to left.  It was just a little to much.  That corner of the property is obviously very tight.  If I remember correctly there was an existing drainage basin/line we had to work around as well.