Garland, here's why

[Pete_Pittock]

Not wanting to threadjack the Olympia Fields CbC thread where Garland asked


Quote from: JWinick on November 06, 2015, 01:08:35 PM

I think the sixth hole is an underrated par-3, the only issue is the walk to the tee on 7.    I've wondered why we just don't leave a golf cart there for people who find that walk to be too much.  The other option is to hit your tee shot on 6 then 7, which a lot of members do, and then hit your shots around the green on six.   

If the USGA is interested in speeding up play, then why don't they allow hitting two tee shots like this in configurations like this on six and seven. it couldn't possibly change the scoring results.

It is about playing the course as your find it along with the definition of ball in play, which is singular tense.]Near Portland you had a similar situation at Tualatin CC where the 8th and 9th tees were virtually side by side and both holes played in the same direction. Once you make an exception to playing the holes in the laid out order then you are inviting chaos to ensue as everyone is then able to play any direction at any time. It is far than enough to accept shotgun starts or both 1st and 10th tee starts.

How would you rule when your ball teed off of 6 at Olympia Fields is at rest and your tee shot on 7 then hits the ball you teed off on 6?

[Kalen Braley]

i'm guessing similar to if you hit a ball and not sure if next shot will be playable....so you hit a provisional and that ball hits your original ball.


is there a rule in the book for that?

[Garland Bayley]

...
How would you rule when your ball teed off of 6 at Olympia Fields is at rest and your tee shot on 7 then hits the ball you teed off on 6?

I would treat it just like I would imagine they treated it back in the day when they allowed stymies. Play both balls as they lie. Trying to determine where a ball was originally and replace it after it was hit is just another time waster in the rules.

I don't see how the chaos you describe would ensue by changing the rules to allow playing balls off both the 6th and 7th tees at Olympia Fields. The rules simply allow a club to make a local rule specifying exactly when shots can be played out of order at their course. The local rule at Olympia Fields simply says players are allowed to hit their tee shot on 6 followed by their tee shot on 7, and then proceed to play the remaining shot in the standard order.

Kalen makes a good point, but not for the reason I suspect he thinks. You are not going to take a provisional if you can see where your ball is so that you would be able to see your second shot hit your first shot. The point is that since both balls would be out of sight from where they were hit, you don't even know the second ball hit the first. Since the rules want you to replace the first in this case, you have no way of doing that, thereby making the replace the ball rule somewhat useless much of the time. Even when the balls can be seen, it might not even be noticed that one struck the other, so again replacing is not done when the rules would call for it.

What about players on parallel fairways have balls hitting each other mid flight.

It seems to me the simplest way to proceed is hit it find it and hit it again, ignoring chance collisions.

[Pete_Pittock]

The problem with the local rule you cited is that it appears to override USGA/R&A rules.  USGA Rule 33-1 says that a committee (ie whomever is in charge at Olympia Fields) cannot write a local rule waiving the Rules of Golf.

[Garland Bayley]

The USGA is coming out with new rules. I am saying these new rules should say a course can make specific order of play designations for their course. I don't care what the old rules say.

They should also allow golf balls with technology to prevent them from being lost. They provide an army of people to alleviate the lost ball problem in their championships. Why not alleviate my lost ball problem?

[SL_Solow]

Do you feel the same way in match play?  Incidentally, there is a similar configuration at Rich Harvest and Mr. Rich expects players to do exactly what you suggest.

[Garland Bayley]

Do you feel the same way in match play?  Incidentally, there is a similar configuration at Rich Harvest and Mr. Rich expects players to do exactly what you suggest.

Match play, medal play, doesn't matter. Play quickly and let the force be with you.

[Paul OConnor]

It's not an official rule at Olympia Fields, people just do it.  I like to say it gives you the chance to make bogey on two holes at the same time.


I do the same thing after my approach on the second hole, save a 100 yard walk each way and tee off on three, then finish up on two. 


I once forgot I hadn't holed out on two and just walked to my tee shot on three, had to climb back up the hill to the second green and finished the hole.  Only did that one time. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Even with the smiley face, it makes all the difference in match play. 



Skimming the new rules I do not see anything which would allow your original premise of playing from both tees. Too bad you didn't forward your idea to the USGA during the public comment period.


A good opposition lawyer would leave you with nothing if your tee shot on 7 (from your example) struck and injured someone.

[Garland Bayley]

Seems Paul is saying we don't need USGA, we will play as makes the most sense.

Seems this site waffles on how to play match play. Most past responses I have gotten is the best way is to make the lowest score you can on each hole and ignore what your opponent is doing. Now all of a sudden the result of the last hole has everything to do with how you play a hole.

[SL_Solow]

First, many people don't play by the rules.  That doesn't make it right although I note that a number of the rules changes appear to be accommodations for the way people play in normal games,e.g. the drop where a ball went OB with penalty,  As far as how to play matches, Bobby Jones recommended playing the course and not the opponent.  But of course, Jones wasn't stupid.  So if one is well ahead , one might be more conservative,  Suppose either of the tee balls is OB or in trouble.  Finally, how much time is saved.  I have played OFCC  since the 70's and other than saving the energy spent on the  walk back up the hill, the time saved is marginal.  Rich Harvest even less.  I am all in favor of improving the pace of play but not if the efforts to do so tamper with the natural progression of the game. 

[Garland Bayley]

Do you save two minutes by not having to walk back to 7 tee? Seems that's what the USGA wants as they reduced ball searches from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm sure that when VR becomes more mainstream and we play golf in the privacy of our basements we will tee off on each hole in succession. Go on to hit each individual club as required on random holes and the finish off our round putting out on every green. Think of all the time saved by not removing and replacing clubs from our bag. Until then I will continue to play one hole at a time. Oh, the burden of it all.