In the distance race, the golf ball matters but is not the Excalibur

[Pete Lavallee]

I suspect that the Manufacturers would instantly develop a driver that could be hit without the use of a tee.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Kalen,


I believe the complete removal of the tee is a step to far and would be seen as more drastic than the currently proposed ball changes.


I'm simply proposing an easy change that could be implemented tomorrow, with no further infrastructure change, that would have a positive impact.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I'm simply proposing an easy change that could be implemented tomorrow, with no further infrastructure change, that would have a positive impact.

I don't think it would change a thing. How high do you think PGA Tour players - who already average -1.3° - tee the ball now?

[Ben Hollerbach]

Erik,

As I stated in my opening comments, the great concern with the ball is not with the average PGA tour player. Their carry distance of 275 yards is not what sparked the distance debate.

As you said, a shorter tee would not be detrimental to overall driving. It seems safe to believe that you would not be against a rule that would reduced the tee height.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

As you said, a shorter tee would not be detrimental to overall driving. It seems safe to believe that you would not be against a rule that would reduced the tee height.

I would be, because it's pointless. You're basically going to punish only the LDA guys who swing up at 8 or 9. It'd be a pointless rules change that would accomplish nothing, IMO.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The rule would only be implemented at the tour level, but I'm glad you brought up LDA. The long drive competitors heavily utilize a taller tee to achieve their enormous 400+ yard drives.  I agree with you, without a big tee they couldn’t hit it as far.  This the main point of the discussion!

Do you not think some percentage of that long driving strategy has transitioned into the bombers on the PGA Tour?  Yes the 400+ drives are un-controllable for PGA use, but at the same time fairway accuracy for the long drivers on the PGA has been declining for years.  Possible evidence the LDA “tall tee” distance strategy is leaking into the PGA tour.

[Kalen Braley]

Ben,


I would say there's likely a strong correlation there. There isn't one guy in those competitions who uses anything other than a max height tee, I doubt that's just coincidence.


Make the Pros hit it off the deck to get em thinking about accuracy again...

[John Kavanaugh]

Phil won last week and Tiger is back in the mix. Time for a change!!!

[jeffwarne]

As you said, a shorter tee would not be detrimental to overall driving. It seems safe to believe that you would not be against a rule that would reduced the tee height.

I would be, because it's pointless. You're basically going to punish only the LDA guys who swing up at 8 or 9. It'd be a pointless rules change that would accomplish nothing, IMO.

It would actually potentially punish the slower speed swinger (LPGA) who use the upward angle of attack to compensate for a lack of power.
The high speed players can hit down slightly for more accuracy/prefence and still get it out there far enough.
Unintended consequences, and like the anchor ban-a ban on innovation/choice of technique.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

It would actually potentially punish the slower speed swinger (LPGA) who use the upward angle of attack to compensate for a lack of power.
The high speed players can hit down slightly for more accuracy/prefence and still get it out there far enough.
Unintended consequences, and like the anchor ban-a ban on innovation/choice of technique.

Completely agree with you there, Jeff.

I visited the Titleist guys once and they told me a story about Bill Haas. They said he was leaving 20 yards in the bag because he was hitting down 2 or 3 degrees, but he just wasn't comfortable hitting up a little and getting the ball that high in the air.

Longer hitters/faster swingers can have the option to hit down a little for a bit more control. Shorter hitters/slower swingers often have to hit up slightly to max out their distance.

[Ben Hollerbach]

Jeff,


I agree, that the average LPGA player would be hurt. But I'd have no intention for a shorter tee rule to be implemented on the LPGA. Much like the LDA players, the fact that the average LPGA player has such a high AOA suggest their direct pursuit in using AOA to try and gain more distance.  With an average carry distance of 218, there isn't much of a public concern over the danger in how far the ladies hit it.


An implementation of a shorter tee rule would only apply to a select group of players, leaving 99% of the golfing public completely unaffected and still able to use a longer tee.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


I agree, that the average LPGA player would be hurt. But I'd have no intention for a shorter tee rule to be implemented on the LPGA. Much like the LDA players, the fact that the average LPGA player has such a high AOA suggest their direct pursuit in using AOA to try and gain more distance.  With an average carry distance of 218, there isn't much of a public concern over the danger in how far the ladies hit it.


An implementation of a shorter tee rule would only apply to a select group of players, leaving 99% of the golfing public completely unaffected and still able to use a longer tee.

Ben,
But you would effectively eliminate all lower clubhead speed swingers on the PGA Tour who choose to hit up to max their distance and survivee on TOUR.
You'd end up with ONLY high clubhead speed players left touring as the option to max their distance to go longer by hitting up (but still average to short on the PGA Tour) would be eliminated.


Would it curb overll distance? MAYBE,
OR you could just end up self selecting super high speed players who were able to still hit it far enough to play the tour, who now were potentially more accurate.


And more likely, a low spinless low profile driver would be developed to still allow upward Angle of attack.

[Thomas Dai]

I kinda suspect that their scores might actually get lower if the very best players were not able to use a tee-peg, ie instead hitting a strong lofted, shorter shafted fairway metal from the tee-box.
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

I kinda suspect that their scores might actually get lower if the very best players were not able to use a tee-peg, ie instead hitting a strong lofted, shorter shafted fairway metal from the tee-box.
Atb

Thomas,


I don't know how you see that.  I figure they, (players and manufactures) are constantly looking for the best possible solution under the current rules.  If that has led to tall tees and high launch angles, I don't doubt for a second they haven't done the science behind it.


Now I'm not saying they wouldn't make tweaks/adaptations should a rule ban the use of tees, but I'm having trouble seeing how this would translate to lower scores...

[Duncan Cheslett]

I like the simplicity of the idea - however there is a problem.


I play regularly with one of the UK's handful of +5 handicappers. I have seen him hit driver off the deck 300 yards to the middle of a green in a Texas Scramble. That's with a club which is not intended to be hit other than off a tee.


How long do you think it would be before club manufacturers came up with a driver designed to sweep the ball off the ground?