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Niall C

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Trip to South Africa
« on: October 27, 2017, 09:02:37 AM »
Along with 3 pals I’m planning a golfing trip to South Africa in 2019. We’re at the early stages of looking into the trip and have an incredibly low knowledge base of where to go/courses etc. Any suggestions or recommendations would therefore be appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
Niall

Padraig Dooley

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2017, 09:54:19 AM »
Is it an all golf trip? Or will there be many non golf activities too?

Cape Town is better for non golf, Jo'burg is better for golf
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

C. Sturges

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 10:16:43 AM »
Niall,


I went to South Africa this year on a golf/ safari trip and would be more than happy to offer any help or observations.
On my trip we flew into J-burg and then drove to Krueger.  From there we drove to Durban and along the coast to Cape Town.  We say a lot of the country and drove near most places.

FYI- it was a great trip and we played a lot of golf, but this is not a great golf course architecture country.
Plan accordingly for weather,  I was there in the fall and we had some very warm days and some amazingly cold(snow warnings).
The exchange rate is a nice treat compared to traveling to Europe/UK from the US.
My favorite part was meeting the locals and the small towns on the coast.  The safari experience should not be missed if you have not done it before.
Let me know how I can help,
chris

Jim Hoak

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 12:42:18 PM »
We had a wonderful trip there a couple of years ago--1 day in JoBurg, 4 on safari in Krueger, 4 for golf at Leopard Creek, and 2 days in Capetown.
Leopard Creek which is up by Krueger is a fun course, worth playing.  It won't overwhelm you with its architecture, but it is well maintained and enjoyable to play.   It is separated from Krueger National Forest by the Crocodile River, which runs alongside some back 9 holes.  Had to wait on the 9th Tee for two giraffes to clear.  And a crocodile sunning itself in the 10th Fairway guaranteed that you would keep your drive right.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:18:31 PM by Jim Hoak »

Niall C

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 12:50:23 PM »
Gents


Thanks for your responses, much appreciated. My friends are all mid to high single figure handicappers but not particularly into the architecture side although they know a good course when they see one. None of us have much knowledge of SA as I said so we aren't basing ourselves around having to play particular courses.


We will be there to enjoy ourselves beyond the golf so good food, good wine and a safari would have to be on the cards at some point I'd have thought. We will be there for probably about a week and while we might move around I think it will maybe only to move base once as we won't want to waste too much time packing/unpacking/travelling etc.


I suspect it will come down to where's the best place for the social aspects and then whats the best courses roundabout there.


Niall

Thomas Dai

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 02:13:50 PM »
Niall,

Have a look at this thread about a South Africa trip from last year -http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63998.0.html

Great place SA.

atb

PS - I have thoughts for a SA trip in 2021 - to coincide with the next Lions tour :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 02:15:47 PM by Thomas Dai »

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 05:35:02 PM »
Niall,

I have copied my reviews from the other thread for your convenience Doak scale ratings next to the name to give an idea of the courses quality.


I am in South Africa right now, on my third trip as my sister in law lives here. We have based our trips out of Cape Town and have twice driven the Garden Route along the Southern shore. It's a long drive from Capetown to Port Elizabeth. We were advised not to attempt the drive from Port Elizabeth to Durban as the only road goes inland. There are numerous reasonably priced inter city flights which can cut out the long drives. Even without the golf there is much to see and do and the current 14 to 1 exchange rate is very attractive. We had lunch at the Player designed Erinvale yesterday and had 2 bottles of wine, starter, mains, desert and after dinner drinks for 4 and even with a 20% tip paid less than $100! Sadly the wind is howling today and there are 3 fires raging very close by. If you go to the trouble get to Fancourt, Port Elizabeth and Humewood is not far away, you can fly to Durban from there. We will be trying Joburg for the first time in a few weeks. South Africans have a strange tradition of stopping for lunch between nines for 15 minutes, and not just a hot dog but huge plate lunches; no wonder they are good at rugby!


Here's a rundown of the courses we've played:

Humewood 8:  Designed by H V Hotchkin this is my favorite in SA. Not on the water but only a few hundred yards away this course plays very much like a links. The fairways are Bermuda although there was a lot of Kikuyu on the lower spots of the rippling terrain. They were making an effort to irradiate it 6 years ago, not sure how that's coming along. The design accommodates the wind and presents a classic strategy of challenging obstacles to gain advantage. There are a few world class holes with very little letdown.

Durban CC 7:  On a par with Humewood this is jungle golf played over Kikuyu covered sand dunes just a motorways width away from the Indian Ocean. The jungle off the fairways is very penal but there is still decent width. Again there are several world class holes but a few mundane ones too. Interestingly Pasalum grass was discovered here as the course is often flooded by the Indian Ocean, giving it salt water resistance.

Fancourt 7:  Gary Players opus is really a good course with nice width and a reasonable facsimile of links golf. The bunkers are revetted with tubular sand bags which is quite unique. Several water features detract rather than add to the experience. We didn't play either of the 2 other courses here.

George GC 4:  A nice old school course in a pleasant environment with good topography, definetly worth a play if in the Fancourt area.


Plettenburg Bay 4:  This course dates to the 1950's I believe and is not glaringly modern. Some nice holes with decent movement in the land, a fun day out amoungst the many baboons that inhabit the course.

Pinnacle Point 5:  The Wolf Run of SA this is more of roller coaster ride than a golf course. The three cliff side holes on each nine are spectacular but the connecting holes are quite severe. Peter Matkovic just doesn't like wide fairways which is crazy in an area that gets 30+ mph winds on a regular basis. Definetly worth one play though.

Southbroom 4:  Close to Wild Coast in the beachside communities an hour south of Durban this was recommended by gca'ers as a place you could cut loose with a good round after playing championship courses.


Knysna 3:  Situated near the famous lagoon in this resort city it's actually better than it looks from the road. Nothing to write home about.

Pezula 4:  A crazy Ron Fream cart ball track in Knysna built on land far too steep for a good golf course. Has some memorable holes but is totally unwalkable.


The Cape Town area has several solid courses but nothing truly world class:



Royal Cape 6:  Flat as a pancake, the 4 foot high pimple on the long par 4 on the front nine is the biggest elevation change on the course! Still the C M Murray layout provides solid golf in a well manicured setting. A fantastic set of push-up greens with wonderfully 3 dimensional bunkering. Great mix of holes with a nice and long short par 4, varied par 5's and interesting par 3's. Best Kikuyu fairways I've seen, probably because everyone walks with very few buggies, amazing such a tough grass can't stand cart traffic! This would be the old money course in Capetown.

Atlantic Beach 5:  After one play this course evokes a love, hate response. It's truly a housing course, every hole played through a corridor of very nice housing which is tastefully well removed from the boundaries. The course never quite gets to the beach, my guess would be 500 yards. But it does evoke a seaside environment. Built on sandy ground it was originally planted with Bermuda, but the Kikuyu takes hold in the low spots and spreads from there. This actually gives a nice contrast as the high spots of the mounds are a lovely tawny color. The greens are still bent and roll fantastically true. The 6th and 7th holes could easily hold a spot in an all SA eclectic. The front nine is really good, however I felt let down by the back nine where several holes reminded me of condo canyon golf in the US. 

Westlake 4:  Built in the 1930's this course fully accommodate the strong SW winds that blow quite frequently here. The fairways are plenty wide and lined with the ubiquitous stone pines and eucalyptus trees. The site has an overall tilt so there is nice movement to the land. Greens rolled quick and there are a nice variety of green shapes and sizes. The fairways are predominantly Kikuyu, but there is a mixture of Bermuda and cool season grasses as well. The most popular course they do 57,000 rounds a year. Centrally located near Constantia.

Mowbray 4: Interesting green shapes make this a fun course to play. They were transitioning to paspalum greens 3 years ago, hopefully they are up to speed now.

Rondebosch 4:  Very quick Poa Annua greens make the course, the river comes into play on several holes.

Clovelly 4:  A sporty resort style course that makes a nice day out.

Steenburg 4:  Another Matcovic layout that is a bit gimmicky in spots. The landscaping that separates the course from the housing estate is incredible, the golf course not so much. Great food and wine offerings here. The course was recently closed for a year due to an irrigation issue forcing them to rebuild all their greens.

Milnerton 4:  This course is right on the Ocean but was in a transition period of trying to be a links. The Kikuyu fairways were firm and dry enough to bounce balls onto greens but they were in the process of elimating penal parkland features; I hope they succeeded. Adding housing in the middle of the out and back layout compromised it somewhat.


Erinvale 4:  This Gary Player housing estate course throws the kitchen sink at you with bunkering styles. There are sand bag revetted pot bunkers, cone shaped bunkers with wooden sleepers on the faces and the more traditional style thrown in for good measure. The front nine is flat withe back nine taking you into the hills for some spectacular views of Strand Beach and Gordon's Bay. At the 21, year mark Poa Annua has completely taken over the greens. A golfer behind us walked and carried so I know it's possible, but they pander to the cart rider here.

Durbanville 3:  A decent local municipal course.

Somerset West 3:  Built in 1908 the course consists of 3 paddocks, separated by a train line and a road where cars are going 60 mph, plan your crossing carefully! They will be doing a complete redesign next year to eliminate the farthest paddock which could be unsafe for a group of 2 ladies.

Strand 3:  Next to Gordon's Bay on the eastern side of False Bay this is modern course built to sell condos, thankfully they are all to one side, completely separate from the golf course. I'll bet they can mow the greens in an hour as they are the smallest most undulated greens I've seen on a modern layout! Only 100 yards from the sea it's a bit tight to accommodate the stiff winds that are common in the area.


Johannesburg area:


Glendower 7:  A true Championship course this place is like Africa itself, big, wide shouldered and tough as nails. Although C H Allison only designed the course, the construction was supervised by the local pro, there is an obvious touch of brilliance to the layout. The course plays through wide corridors with at least 40 yards separating parallel holes. The pure Kikuyu fairways have ample width, there is a clumpy wired grass in the rough that complicates offline shots. Sadly they thought their course a bit to easy and planted saplings in the 10 yard corridor of rough just off the fairways a year ago. The numerous waterways provide an ideal environment for weeping willows, which normally are out place on a golf course but work perfectly here as they are well removed from the line of play. The bunkering is outstanding, well placed with a lovely 3 dimensional aspect. They play really hard as anyone who watched this years SA Open would witness as they have an extremely fine grain, but unlike the beach sand bunkers of the U.K. they club digs instead of bouncing; just ask Rory how tough they are as his two shots out of the bunker on 17 cost him the Championship. The course is incredibly long, 7685 from the tips, 7213 from the regular men's tees and 6022 from the ladies!  If one accepts the there is a 10% gain from the altitudes it seems acceptable but from my experience if you don't launch you shots high its of little use. The greens are quite large, really firm and quite well contoured with many slopes and ledges. The course also has the luxury of lots of room to the sides which helps accommodate big events like the SA Open. A must play if in the Joburg area.


Houghton 5:  We showed up expecting to play a 1926 design that hosted 8 SA Opens and several Dunhill Cups. But as we drove in, the in vogue style of frilly edged bunkers were in view and something was amiss. Faced with a financial issue and with new members disappointed with the tiny old clubhouse the membership voted on a plan which sold small parcels at the periphery of the course for the development of 7 story condominium blocks. Armed with cash they hired Jack to blow up their course and completely reconstruct it; they did end up with a beautiful new clubhouse complete with a swimming pool on the 3rd floor. The new course has an extremely convoluted routing and has numerous frilly edged bunkers with a rust colored sand to thwart the army of long hitting South Africans. It is a pleasant course to play but our caddy indicated that the old course was both more enjoyable and popular; the members complain that there are too many bunkers but are all extremely proud of their new clubhouse. In the end it seems a pity that the home of SA golfing legend Sid Brews was blown up just to get a new Clubhouse.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 10:56:57 AM »
Pete (and Dai)

Many thanks for that. Once I've gone through your post I'll no doubt be back to ask questions ! Thanks to all for all the help.

Niall

Thomas Dai

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 02:30:10 PM »
What time of year are you and your mates considering Niall? And any particular area(s) of somewhere that quite big.
Atb

Niall C

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2017, 12:46:53 PM »
As I said in OP, no thoughts as yet.


Niall

Niall C

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 11:44:04 AM »
Pete

From a purely golf point of view it looks like maybe basing ourselves around Port Elizabeth might be the best idea ? Does that sound reasonable. What is Port Elizabeth like as a place to spend a bit of time in and how does it compare to Cape Town ?

Niall

Thomas Dai

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 02:08:15 PM »
Despite the attraction of Humewood GC being there Port Elizabeth is pretty industrialised and not really a tourist place. The airport is easy to get to/from though and the road network good to get in/out of PE. Within 45/75 mins either East or particularly West, along the Garden Route, there are more appropriate places to have as a base.


Two bases might be more in order. Fly say into PE via J’burg. Stay, play and game watch in that general area. Head west to another base and stay and play in that area. Maybe even have three bases the last close to Cape Town. Fly back either direct from CT or via J’burg.


Check to see when the SA school holidays are and avoid them. Check also the fixture lists of the provincial rugby teams :)


Great country. Lots to see and do. Easy travelling around. Food and lodging cheap.


Atb

Tom_Doak

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 02:23:07 PM »
Port Elizabeth was the first place I was offered monkey-brain sauce with my steak.  I passed.


Not six months later, I was in Japan and being offered monkey brains as the main course for dinner.  I think.  It might have been a nightmare.


Pete's ratings of the South African courses are pretty much in line with my own ratings for the courses I saw twenty years ago.  I didn't bump Humewood up to an 8, but I thought it was as good as Durban.  And Glendower was the best I saw in Jo'burg.  All of my co-authors have covered South Africa pretty well so I doubt I will get back there for The Confidential Guide, but if I did, the one course I'd like to see is Maccauvlei.  An old friend was also very enamored with Wild Coast, which Pete mentioned but did not review.

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 08:41:38 AM »
We stayed in Port Elizabeth, nicknamed “the Friendly City” for two nights at a B&B. Close by there is a large entertainment complex on the shore which has a Casino, dining, shopping and an amusement park. Frankly that about all we got to see in PE. Humewood is a wonderful course with a great old world style clubhouse. You can use that as a base to venture off to the east for East London which looks really good and Plettenburg Bay, Knysna, George and Mosel Bay to the west. That involves a lot of driving though. Cape Town has much more to offer on the non golf side but is just not close enough to act as a base to explore other regions.


My advise would be to stay in PE for a couple of days and fly from there to your next home base. So if you’re spending 10 days I think 4 to 6 ratio on PE to Capetown would be ideal. In country flights on SA Airlines are dirt cheap; you might spend more on gas to drive to Capetown than you would to fly. The scenery on the “Garden Route” is quite repetitive once you get past George and the drive to Cape-town is long with nothing to speak of to break things up.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 08:45:59 AM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Josh Stevens

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 04:41:39 AM »
For a county with a habit of producing decent golfers, it is not blessed with great golf courses.

Durban CC is probably the only proper old world course, and one of the few that is sand based.  Most in Joburg tend to be on hard rock base and rather soggy (Joburg has wet summers). 

Most of the rest are largely middle of the road modern resort styles, and predictably Gary Player designs dominate, and that is not meant to be a compliment.

Glendower is one of the few standouts in an otherwise small pond.

Kikuyu is prevalent on almost all courses, but as it is native to east Africa that is possibly forgiven.


MKrohn

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 08:27:29 AM »


Kikuyu is prevalent on almost all courses, but as it is native to east Africa that is possibly forgiven.


Is the kike that bad? Outside Durban can you give me 5 courses you enjoyed.

C. Sturges

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 12:57:48 PM »
Niall,
The European PGA Tour is playing in Sun City this week. 
That could be a place to go for a couple of days and J-burg for a couple of days. Would make for an easy golf trip and you would be able to play what many raters consider the best course in South Africa.

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2017, 09:28:11 PM »
My trip to South Africa, golf was below average, safari's were below average, suggest visit Zoo, all the animals are definitely there and then go to Bandon Dunes, Kohler or Cabot where the golf is great
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Josh Stevens

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2017, 02:53:57 AM »
I enjoy most golf course that don't physically assault my senses. 

Anything around Cape Town is nice if you have a view of table mountain and have booked a nice restaurant afterward, but that's about it.

South African golf seems to be more about lifestyle than architecture - but then that's most of the world.  95% of the golf courses in SA are as good as 95% of the golf courses in most of the world.  What it lacks is the top 5%.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 04:44:20 AM »
Gents


Thanks for all the advice. While we are all keen golfers, the apres golf is important which is why the thoughts are now leaning towards Cape Town. I'd like to do a safari or a shark dive even though I have heard the safari bit is not as good as you would imagine.


At the end of the day it is four of us making the decisions so while I might love to go see Durban or Humewood I'm likely to get out-voted however with two years in the planning I have the opportunity to start planting some seeds in the others minds courtesy of your advice. Thanks again.


Niall


Scott Warren

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 05:15:32 AM »
Niall,


If you hit Durban to play the Country Club (which is a lot of fun, a really welcoming club too) then you can go north, stay on the Dolphin Coast around Ballito, play Prince’s Grant — nothing crazy good architecturally but a fun resort course with some memorable shots and holes — then three hours north of there is Hlhluwe-Umfalozi Game Reserve, which is superb.


I can’t recommend Southbroom at all. Didn’t care for it. The one seaside par three is picturesque and that’s it.

Philip Gawith

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 04:42:13 PM »
Tom the sauce you would have been offered on your steak would have monkey gland ( not brain). I have no idea of the origins but it has nothing to do with monkeys - it is just a barbecue sauce, and very common where steak or burgers are served.


Niall as you probably know the best safari areas are in the east of the country towards Mocambique. You can fly to Nelspruit or Hoedspruit.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 07:55:41 AM »
Philip


Thanks for that tip. As it happens my knowledge is pretty limited so thanks for that. As I said in an earlier post this trip is going to be planned by a committee of four and basing ourselves somewhere where it is nice to stay with good food, wine, lots of bars and feeling safe, will likely be the key factor.


Niall

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Trip to South Africa New
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 11:56:54 AM »
Basing yourself in Cape Town is a great idea. Check out the lodging at Steenburg GC; accommodations are very nice, with two excellent restaurants on premises and a winery in addition to golf and a great practice facility. You will be centrally located in Constantia with several fantastic restaurants nearby and easy access to Westlake GC, Clovelly GC and Royal Cape GC which are must plays while in Cape Town.

An option you may wish to investigate if you want to go the safari route is a stay and play at Hans Merenski GC which is right on a game preserve. Accommodation on site with quaint thatched roofs and ample opportunity to view wildlife from the golf course.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 01:09:09 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Jason Topp

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Re: Trip to South Africa
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 12:55:21 PM »
No advice on golf but unless your group has seen African wildlife, you should spend a couple of days at Mala Mala.  Great accommodations and you are pretty much guaranteed to see the big 5 even in a short stay:  Lion, Buffalo, Elephant, Hippo and Leopard.   


http://www.malamala.com/


I slightly preferred some other camps we visited but if your trip is a golf trip, Mala Mala is the easiest spot to see a lot of terrific wildlife in a short period of time.  Best trip of my life.