[Kalen Braley]

They drop some pretty big names in terms of where they got the inspiration for the course.  I hadn't heard much about it until reading this.  Does this course live up to the billing?


https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2017/07/26/pikewood-national-the-pleasure-pain-of-playing-one-of-the-hardest-and-best-u-s-golf-courses/#51e1415b5275

[Carl Johnson]

Pikewood has been discussed before on GCA. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49151.0.html Not sure about Bob Gwynne, but Raese had/has the money.  You can do a lot when you have the desire, money, land and construction resources.  My sense is that it really is an excellent course, but in spite of what the author's article says about his experience, I expect only the very low handicapper would enjoy it.  As I recall, there is only one set of tees.  (Apparently I recall incorrectly -- see Petersen and Pazin posts below.)  I've never been there myself, but have driven past a number of times and the existence of a golf club is visible from the road (assuming you know the tell tale signs).  Here's an interesting article about it's development.  http://www.politico.com/story/2012/10/raese-built-golf-club-without-permits-082137

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pikewood+National+Golf+Club/@39.5374232,-79.8670231,706m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88356276dd90c621:0x73f5037b72f46869!8m2!3d39.537473!4d-79.8670864

Trivia: Author Ed Matuszewski says the course is located on the Kingswood Pike.  Actually, it's local route 81, which from Morgantown going to Kingwood is called the Kingwood Pike (not Kingswood) and from Kingwood to Morgantown is known as the Morgantown Pike.  From "Kingwood Pike" you should be able to figure out how the course got its name.  The drive on the "pike" between Morgantown and Kingwood is a very nice country drive if you're not in a hurry.  It's my preferred way to go from Morgantown to Kingwood (or the other way).  How do I come by this?  My boyhood home backed up to Dorsey Ave., Rt. 81 in Morgantown, which shortly changes names to become the Kingwood Pike.  Sometimes I'd ride my bike, or take a jog, out the pike.  Why would one go from Morgantown to Kingwood?  One reason would be to play the Preston Country Club course.  If you're in the area and playing Pikewood, you really ought to play Preston CC as well -- a very fine but completely different golf experience from what you'd have at Pikewood.  It's a flat, walkable course on the Cheat River flood plain.  http://www.prestoncountryclub.com/   Another reason to go to Kingwood would be for the annual Buckwheat Festival, but that's only one weekend a year.  http://dmoyers9.wixsite.com/buckwheatfest  The other area golf course I'd recommend is the Pete Dye Golf Club in Bridgeport.

So, George Pazin, here's your trip.  If you can get on Pikewood (without my help), then you must also play Preston CC and Pete Dye GC, as long as you are in the area.

[Matthew Petersen]

The Forbes article lists yardages for three sets of tees.

[George Pazin]

Damn, building a course without the permits raises my opinion of Mr. Raese...


The article says there's 3 sets of tees. It also cites Geoff's book on Cypress Point as a guide. Interesting.


Hope to see for myself someday.


Thanks for the link, Kalen.

[Scott Weersing]

Hmm, I wonder who the course builder was. If you were building a course, say you worked for Landscape Unlimited, wouldn't you ask the project manager, did we get permits from the US Army Corps of Engineers?


I would guess the project manager, said yes, but did not really have the permits.


I remember talking to an architect about certain holes and he said, "yes, we wanted to change that stream but the Army Corps of Engineers would not let us. " 

[Tom_Doak]

Technically, the only permit you need to build a golf course is a grading permit, usually obtained at the county level.  I suspect that some rural counties don't have such a procedure, although it is fewer and fewer of them today.


The county is the body that then decides if there are aspects of the project that require approvals from the Corps of Engineers, U.S. Fish & Wildlife, or other governmental agencies, before they grant you the grading permit.


Usually, if there are wetlands in the area at all, they will require you to hire a local engineer to delineate the wetlands, and if you want to make any changes to [or close to] the wetlands -- or build any bridges across them -- then you have to deal with the Corps.  But, I've built many courses where we did not need a permit from them.


Pikewood National does have a couple of water features, so it's possible they skated by a rule, but it's also possible the county approved it.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  I can think of only two brutish courses off the top of my head I'd love to play....ANGC and Pine Valley.

[Brian Finn]

Tom,

The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  I can think of only two brutish courses off the top of my head I'd love to play....ANGC and Pine Valley.

ANGC has never struck me as brutish.  In fact, it appears to be a course that would be extremely fun to play.  At the risk of getting far off topic, what about it do you find brutish?

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  I can think of only two brutish courses off the top of my head I'd love to play....ANGC and Pine Valley.

ANGC has never struck me as brutish.  In fact, it appears to be a course that would be extremely fun to play.  At the risk of getting far off topic, what about it do you find brutish?

I wondered if this would be asked. 


Seems from what I've seen on TV that if you are slightly out of position you pay a big price.  Wrong side of the fairway, wrong side of the green.  When the pros are grinding out survival on holes like 10-12, I'm thinking, I'd be lucky to get thru there in 4-5 over par.


Throw in deep bunkers, lightening fast and undulating greens, loads of uneven/sidehill lies, water hazards very much in play, tree lined fairways.. and the course looks very difficult for all but the best players.


P.S.  I do think it would be a ton of fun based on all the factors of actually being able to play it, but based on pure score, it would seem to be a slaughter, especially for a high capper.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  I can think of only two brutish courses off the top of my head I'd love to play....ANGC and Pine Valley.

Actually, I didn't see my name in the Politico article.  But in reading it, I found it a very odd coincidence that this comes up as an issue seven years after the course was built ... but just as one of the developers starts running for office against an incumbent Senator.  What are the odds that said Senator pushed the EPA to investigate?


I liked the course.  It's "minimalist" in a different way than what I build.  I think there were only three fairway bunkers, but there are also fewer concessions to 10- and 15-handicappers regarding carries from the tee and width.  [It's not narrow, but it's tough to recover from the woods, and it's not as wide as a lot of modern courses.]  It is built to appeal to low handicappers, and it succeeds on that score.  But it's got to be harder to pull off a club appealing to a limited subset of golfers, in rural West Virginia.

[Carl Johnson]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  . . .

Actually, I didn't see my name in the Politico article. 

Tom, you are mentioned in Ed Matuszewski's Forbes article referred to in the first post in this thread.[/size]

[Carl Nichols]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  . . .

Actually, I didn't see my name in the Politico article. 

Tom, you are mentioned in Ed Matuszewski's Forbes article referred to in the first post in this thread.

The Politico article is also 5 years old

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  . . .

Actually, I didn't see my name in the Politico article. 

Tom, you are mentioned in Ed Matuszewski's Forbes article referred to in the first post in this thread.

The Politico article is also 5 years old

For some reason the link to the Forbes article does not open in my browser.  Perhaps they've blocked me!


Sorry I missed that the Politico article was so old.  It was certainly more timely then, although I don't know that anything has happened as a result.  But my other point might still hold, as the timing must have been very close to when Mr. Raese announced his previous Senate bid.

[Kalen Braley]

From the Forbes article:


'Gwynn seems proud of the back-handed compliment they received from Golf Digest architectural editor Ron Whitten, who said the owners could be given the exact same piece of property again and probably would never be able to produce a routing as good. Noted architect Tom Doak visited Pikewood National last year, walking the course for four hours and then spending another four hours with Gwynn at the clubhouse bar talking about the virtues of the design."

[Carl Nichols]

Tom,


The article gave you a quick mention.  What did you think of the place?  . . .

Actually, I didn't see my name in the Politico article. 

Tom, you are mentioned in Ed Matuszewski's Forbes article referred to in the first post in this thread.

The Politico article is also 5 years old

For some reason the link to the Forbes article does not open in my browser.  Perhaps they've blocked me!


Sorry I missed that the Politico article was so old.  It was certainly more timely then, although I don't know that anything has happened as a result.  But my other point might still hold, as the timing must have been very close to when Mr. Raese announced his previous Senate bid.

Agree completely.  I was just pointing out that that was in 2012.

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