It's hard to design/build a golf course without doing goofy things.

[mike_malone]

 I played a solid course west of Philly today. It suffered from the tendency to plant trees to deal with partially parallel fairways. It also couldn't resist multiple hazards at the green which lessened options.


 It is a nice course but they couldn't resist doing goofy things to make it play harder.


It strikes me that it isn't easy to design/build a course without some goofy stuff.


They put the pins in places thinking that the Senior Open rather then the Senior Interclub was being played.

[Ed Brzezowski]

course?   or a hint?

[Joe Bausch]

Clayton Park?  You told me you enjoyed the course on your inaugural visit a couple of summers ago.

[mike_malone]

Gordon

[Joe Bausch]

Was Whitey Ford a good player?

 

[Jim Hoak]

A related question from your original post is--Why do courses persist in doing goofy things to make a nice course harder, when they are having events like an Inter-club or a Member-Guest--especially Senior ones?  I know the answer--misplaced, pathetic ego, trying to impress outsiders with how great their course is and confusing greatness with difficulty.  It's sad.

[Peter Pallotta]

I think the problem is it might be too *easy* to design and build a course without doing goofy things.
Follow the land, let it guide you, take your time, use your instincts, don't force anything or get worked up, allow associates the freedom to express their talents, and let the process (and the design) evolve naturally, as unexpected issues and/or new ideas emerge.
See? Easy.
But alas, *too* easy.
How many architects out of ten have the confidence and the trust to let it flow like that?
How many supers out of a hundred can later not be tempted to try and make the course harder/better?
How many committee members out of a thousand can resist the urge to shape the course into their own image?

As Joe H says: There's no money in doing less. That's true. And there's no ego gratification in doing less either. As a veteran Hollywood producer once said: "In the old days, it was all about money -- which was okay, since you could always satisfy someone's greed by giving them more.  The trouble is that today it's about money *and* ego -- and there's no satisfying ego."   
   

[mike_malone]

I think the problem is it might be too *easy* to design and build a course without doing goofy things.
Follow the land, let it guide you, take your time, use your instincts, don't force anything or get worked up, allow associates the freedom to express their talents, and let the process (and the design) evolve naturally, as unexpected issues and/or new ideas emerge.
See? Easy.
But alas, *too* easy.
How many architects out of ten have the confidence and the trust to let it flow like that?
How many supers out of a hundred can later not be tempted to try and make the course harder/better?
How many committee members out of a thousand can resist the urge to shape the course into their own image?

As Joe H says: There's no money in doing less. That's true. And there's no ego gratification in doing less either. As a veteran Hollywood producer once said: "In the old days, it was all about money -- which was okay, since you could always satisfy someone's greed by giving them more.  The trouble is that today it's about money *and* ego -- and there's no satisfying ego."   
 

Peter,


I think that is what draws me to Flynn. He had faith in the land in his parkland designs.

[archie_struthers]

 




Joe , Whitey Ford was a pretty good player , didn't compete as hard as he did in baseball.  Played golf for fun and loved hanging with his buddies. Caddied for him in Florida and played with him once at Pine Valley.   Lefty swinger , decent power , hit a slice that he could repeat.


So it was a neat surprise when my boss at PVGC told me he wanted me to join a group one afternoon and it included Whitey.  He joked about my "promotion" and off we went .  Front nine Whitey hit it in the trees left on almost every hole . Think he shot close to 50.  I happened to play pretty well and when we got ready to start the back nine he goes , ok pro , how you going to help me ?  Thinking logically I replied aim it further right . Both caddies were laughing and so did Whitey .


After shooting 39 on the back ,managing the slice perfectly , he says .  Pretty good Archie , one of the best lessons I ever had . We both laughed and it made my month .




p.s.    he was the leader of the gang when all the ball players got together at Adios , not Mantle Martin or any other . Whitey Ford  was  the man !    Quite special

[MCirba]

Awesome story, Archie.   

[Terry Lavin]

Joe , Whitey Ford was a pretty good player , didn't compete as hard as he did in baseball.  Played golf for fun and loved hanging with his buddies. Caddied for him in Florida and played with him once at Pine Valley.   Lefty swinger , decent power , hit a slice that he could repeat.


So it was a neat surprise when my boss at PVGC told me he wanted me to join a group one afternoon and it included Whitey.  He joked about my "promotion" and off we went .  Front nine Whitey hit it in the trees left on almost every hole . Think he shot close to 50.  I happened to play pretty well and when we got ready to start the back nine he goes , ok pro , how you going to help me ?  Thinking logically I replied aim it further right . Both caddies were laughing and so did Whitey .


After shooting 39 on the back ,managing the slice perfectly , he says .  Pretty good Archie , one of the best lessons I ever had . We both laughed and it made my month .




p.s.    he was the leader of the gang when all the ball players got together at Adios , not Mantle Martin or any other . Whitey Ford  was  the man !    Quite special

That is the best war story I've ever read on this site.

[Bob Montle]

Awesome story, Archie.   

+1