An Ideal Golf Course by Herbert Fowler

[Adam Lawrence]

From the Illustrated London News of July 26, 1913 -- a plan of an ideal golf course, as envisaged by Herbert Fowler.

This was a double page spread in the paper -- how times have changed!

I presume this is a photo of a plasticine model. If so, and given the reference to Simpson in the caption, might it have been built by the latter (given we know he used them)?

[Niall C]

Adam

Thanks for posting. That photo was also reproduced in one of the mags, can't remember which off hand. I recall it as being all Fowlers work and he certainly used plasticine models at some point. If you look in Country Life c.1909 (I think) there are a number of articles/columns (maybe written by Darwin but at least one by Fowler) that show and refer to models produced by Fowler as well as Simpson.

Niall

[MCirba]

Adam,

George Crump and friends were great admirers of Herbert Fowler, and evidently spent many hours discussing his design ideals and theories while working on Pine Valley.   This from an article unearthed some time back by Joe Bausch, although I neglected to copy the source and date.

[Scott Warren]

I expected this to be a thread about Walton Heath Old!

[Rich Goodale]

Looks more like a plasticine model of a 1918 post-WWI site such as Vimy Ridge than a proper golf course.  What a deranged visionary Fowler must have been.  Glad he designed very few courses that I have had the privilege to have played.

[Neil Regan]

Here is his (their ?) "Intensive" golf course:

[Thomas Dai]

What a deranged visionary Fowler must have been.  Glad he designed very few courses that I have had the privilege to have played.

Strong wording here Rich.
Out out interest, which Fowler courses have you played and when?
atb

[Phil Lipper]

Clearly he never played Eastward Ho, because he wouldn't of made that comment

[Joe Sponcia]

Great find.  Thanks for posting.

[Sean_A]

What a deranged visionary Fowler must have been.  Glad he designed very few courses that I have had the privilege to have played.

Strong wording here Rich.
Out out interest, which Fowler courses have you played and when?
atb

Fowler does come across far more harsh in writings than his designs seem to bear out. No question to me Fowler didn't particularly want to be associated with the Oxbridge designer lot.


Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Clearly he never played Eastward Ho, because he wouldn't of made that comment

Been invited there several times but never had the time to get there.  From the pictures I've seen, it is a fine course.  Probably top 20-30 in Massachusetts, but who's counting.


rfg

[Rich Goodale]

What a deranged visionary Fowler must have been.  Glad he designed very few courses that I have had the privilege to have played.

Strong wording here Rich.
Out out interest, which Fowler courses have you played and when?
atb

Hi Thomas


I had to Google a bit but this is what I can remember:


Westward Ho! (not a Fowler design, but he learned his golf there).  I first played there in 1981 and lastly in 2014 (2 rounds, UKSGA tournament).  Top 50 in the UK, IMHO.

Crystal Springs, California.   1976-1981.


Pebble Beach 18th hole (15-20 times 1976-2013)


Aberdovey (2015)
Southerndown (2010-2012)
Deal (1981-2012)


All partly/possibly had Herbie's touch on them amongst many others.  All top 50 UK but not much higher.


ATB, atb


Rich

[mike_malone]

I like the way he used the river. I don't see a parallel hazard.

[Thomas Dai]

Rich,
Thanks for the listing. No slight intended, just curious about to your initial comment as most folks I've conversed with seem appreciative of his work.


Mike,
Interesting comment. He used a feature called The Leet, a shallow yee olde manmade open channel taking water from the upland moor down to Plymouth, several times in his routing at Yelverton GC and to good effect.


atb

[Niall C]

Sean


Curious about your comment about Fowler and the Oxbridge designer set as you call them. Off the top of my head I've no idea if Fowler went to Oxbridge, but I think I'm right in saying his main design partner Tom Simpson did. Fowler also was in partnership with Croombe and Abercrombie who were most definitely of that set. He was also a member of the R&A and on committee with the likes of Colt and JL Low.


Hard to square that with a man who wanted to keep his distance from the Oxbridge designer set.


Niall

[Sean_A]

Sean


Curious about your comment about Fowler and the Oxbridge designer set as you call them. Off the top of my head I've no idea if Fowler went to Oxbridge, but I think I'm right in saying his main design partner Tom Simpson did. Fowler also was in partnership with Croombe and Abercrombie who were most definitely of that set. He was also a member of the R&A and on committee with the likes of Colt and JL Low.


Hard to square that with a man who wanted to keep his distance from the Oxbridge designer set.


Niall

Separate in terms of design style...keep up.


Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Sean

Curious about your comment about Fowler and the Oxbridge designer set as you call them. Off the top of my head I've no idea if Fowler went to Oxbridge, but I think I'm right in saying his main design partner Tom Simpson did. Fowler also was in partnership with Croombe and Abercrombie who were most definitely of that set. He was also a member of the R&A and on committee with the likes of Colt and JL Low.

Hard to square that with a man who wanted to keep his distance from the Oxbridge designer set.

Niall

Fowler did not attend university. His brother Gerald went to Oxford and was a cricket Blue, but I get the impression that Herbert wasn't very bright. He was certainly a rotten businessman.

[Niall C]

Adam

I agree, it seems he didn't do that well out of business but then it also seems he spent more time playing golf and cricket which might account for that. Was he basically just a guy who was content to squander the inheritance rather than add to it ?

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam

I agree, it seems he didn't do that well out of business but then it also seems he spent more time playing golf and cricket which might account for that. Was he basically just a guy who was content to squander the inheritance rather than add to it ?

Niall

I don't think he was content to squander the inheritance -- I just don't think he was able to do any better.


Fowler's family, in the 1880s, bought him a partnership in an established regional bank in Somerset, yet he somehow managed to lose a load of money on that. Philip Truett of Walton Heath, a very fine researcher, has deposited a lot of Fowler-related papers in the Surrey History Centre in Woking -- these show him getting involved in any number of lousy businesses. And the correspondence relating to the creation of Walton Heath is very clear that WHF was basically bankrupt and his in-law Cosmo Bonsor put him in charge of creating the course in order to save him from the courts.