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Tommy Williamsen

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Have we entered a new golden age?
« on: January 22, 2017, 05:55:41 PM »
In the last year I've played Biltmore Forest, Sherwood CC, Philadelphia Cricket Wiisahicken, and Old Town. The one thing they have in common is a significant renovation project. They were extensive and well done. Have we entered a new golden age of course renovation?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David_Tepper

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 06:05:22 PM »
In the SF Bay Area, you can add the Cal Club, the Meadow Club and Claremont to that list. Three more renovations very well done. The Menlo Club could be the 4th. 

Steve Lang

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 06:43:10 PM »
 8)
     Tommy,

I started a thread on new years eve questioning whether the last 30 years should be better defined than just “Present” on the Discussion Group home page and I noted the 4 gca periods defined (paraphrased) as:1.  Pre-1899  "Natural Challenges"

2.  1900-1937  includes "The Golden Age"
3.  1949-1985  "The Dark Ages"
4.  Present  (Shaping Options, penal, to subtle sustainability”
Jeff_Lewis nailed it in the first response:“Simple.  Renaissance.  Follows the Dark Ages.”
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Pallotta

Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 08:30:32 PM »
Tom, David - a question:


When you say these renovations are "well done", what do you mean?


I've read (on here) about several successful renovations, so I have a few guesses about what constitutes success and what golfers who care about good gca want to see happen/done in such renovations -- but I'd much rather get your opinions/impressions about why the changes to the courses you mention turned out well.


Thanks
Peter   

David_Tepper

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2017, 09:17:28 PM »
"When you say these renovations are "well done", what do you mean?"

Peter P. -

Some of the features of a well done renovation could include tree removal, enlarging greens that have "shrunk" over time, improving drainage and re-shaping bunkers in the style of their original design.

I think all four of those things were done on the renovations at the 3 courses I mentioned.
 
DT   
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 09:37:34 PM by David_Tepper »

Lyndell Young

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 09:40:18 PM »
I agree David Also well done is restoring as close as possible to original archie intent. This can be done by study of original drawings, aerials and have a grasp of style by study of other works. Much of the design work from the 70's -90's was whatever the current archies style was at the time of work performed which dumbed down many great classics.

Greg Chambers

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 10:10:24 PM »
I too wonder what qualifies a restoration as well done?  At least one of the examples from the original list would qualify as not well done, if seen from the eyes of the gca crowd...so what say ye?
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2017, 08:56:48 AM »
I guess well done could mean different things depending on the course. At Biltmore it was more of a restoration. At Sherwood Nicklaus made some significant changes so it was more a modest redesign. At both Philly Cricket and Old Town the renovation required the removal of a vast number of trees and at Old Town a redesign of the bunkers. I had played the Cricket club prior to the renovation. The corridors are the same but the course looked drastically different. It was as if I had not been there before.



Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2017, 10:26:05 AM »
Tommy:
Golf Club Atlas, as a champion of quality restoration work, has certainly been a factor in this trend.


However, the cynic in me says that this "golden age" of restoration is powered by the scarcity of new projects for golf course architects who want to feed their families.  Many architects who pooh-poohed the very idea of restoration, not so long ago, are now knee-deep in such work.  And they don't just want to renovate the bunkers: many of these projects are full-on multi-million-dollar efforts.  As the Watergate leaker told us, if you want to really know what's going on, "follow the money."


Fifteen years ago, you also would not have found many old-school clubs to buy into such a substantial capital project; but once the neighbor club rebuilds their greens and improves them, the pressure is on to keep up.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2017, 10:41:00 AM »
Tommy:
Golf Club Atlas, as a champion of quality restoration work, has certainly been a factor in this trend.


However, the cynic in me says that this "golden age" of restoration is powered by the scarcity of new projects for golf course architects who want to feed their families.  Many architects who pooh-poohed the very idea of restoration, not so long ago, are now knee-deep in such work.  And they don't just want to renovate the bunkers: many of these projects are full-on multi-million-dollar efforts.  As the Watergate leaker told us, if you want to really know what's going on, "follow the money."


Fifteen years ago, you also would not have found many old-school clubs to buy into such a substantial capital project; but once the neighbor club rebuilds their greens and improves them, the pressure is on to keep up.


I thought the same thing myself, so maybe the drought of new course start up has been a blessing for both architects and clubs.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff Bergeron

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2017, 09:10:33 PM »
Tommy:
Golf Club Atlas, as a champion of quality restoration work, has certainly been a factor in this trend.


However, the cynic in me says that this "golden age" of restoration is powered by the scarcity of new projects for golf course architects who want to feed their families.  Many architects who pooh-poohed the very idea of restoration, not so long ago, are now knee-deep in such work.  And they don't just want to renovate the bunkers: many of these projects are full-on multi-million-dollar efforts.  As the Watergate leaker told us, if you want to really know what's going on, "follow the money."

It seems to me that in an age of overcapacity, and hyper competition in higher end clubs, the focus on restoration is a natural result. The majority of the restorations/renovations I've seen have been great improvements on the 80 plus years of over planting and the influence of Green Committees
Fifteen years ago, you also would not have found many old-school clubs to buy into such a substantial capital project; but once the neighbor club rebuilds their greens and improves them, the pressure is on to keep up.
It seems to me that in an age of overcapacity, and hyper competition in higher end clubs, the focus on restoration is a natural result. The majority of the restorations/renovations I've seen have been great improvements on the 80 plus years of over planting and the influence of Green Committees that didn't know what they were doing. Further the modifications over these years were overseen by RT Jones, Art Hills, et al where they tried to put their mark on a course rather than 'restore' the intent of the original architect.
I agree we are in a new golden age, the restoration of courses built in the original golden age, to their original architectural intent.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2017, 10:42:48 PM »
Tommy,
I started in the restoration and renovation business 14 years ago and many thought I was wasting my time.  To me it was obvious that there was going to be a need sooner or later for a focus in this area and opportunities for those who were passionate and knowledgable about the older courses.  I think I and several others who focused on this area were right!


David,
I am of course biased but would add Mira Vista to that list of SF Bay Area courses  :)

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 12:34:35 AM »
We're talking restoration, not renovation right?


Aside from the reason TD spoke of, the other primary reason is that we are in an era in thrall to the golden age architects, mainly brought on by the success of the minimalists.


If that age ever ends, will the desire for restorations also end or will we move on to restoring Pete Dye and RTJ courses?


Most of the restorations I see are full on renovations with elements of redesign anyway.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 07:41:17 AM »
Aside from the reason TD spoke of, the other primary reason is that we are in an era in thrall to the golden age architects, mainly brought on by the success of the minimalists.

If that age ever ends, will the desire for restorations also end or will we move on to restoring Pete Dye and RTJ courses?

Most of the restorations I see are full on renovations with elements of redesign anyway.


There is a little more true restoration going on here in the U.S. than in the U.K. and Ireland, but I would agree that a lot of them are "renovations with elements of redesign," instead of what they are advertised to be.


BTW, I've had feelers from people at a couple of Mr. Dye's courses about the possibility of restoring them someday.  That would be a weird thing to do, because in most cases, it was Mr. Dye himself who made the subsequent changes ... even though I would agree that sometimes his first version was superior to the most recent.


Ian Andrew

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 10:28:43 AM »

If that age ever ends, will the desire for restorations also end or will we move on to restoring Pete Dye and RTJ courses?


I've been asked about RTJ courses in the last few years. I work with a club called Crag Burn in Buffalo (1969). I like it, very understated, lots of native grasses and very low profile, very different from his other works I've seen. I think the unique examples will be the ones that will stay intact. But that legacy will see a lot of renovation once both of his sons have passed on. 


My photo of 9th looking back



Painting of 9th by Tony Harris





With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 10:40:11 AM »
I love it that many clubs are doing renovations/restorations/redesigns, but it also separates the haves from the have nots even further. Is work on the course the new way clubs seek to attract new members? For years clubs sought to get new members by adding onto and renovating the clubhouse.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David_Tepper

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 12:39:24 PM »
LINKS mag article on the renovation trend:

http://www.linksmagazine.com/praise-course-renovations/

MClutterbuck

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Re: Have we entered a new golden age?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 01:17:39 PM »
But surely if this is a new Golden Age, it is not just because of restorations, right?


A large percentage of the new courses are great designs. Is the current percentage enough?


Both elements together with adequate preservation would have to be present for a Golden Age to exist, right?


And if we are indeed in a golden age, would there ever be a return to dark ages given how information today travels across the globe?