Shinnecock USGA Setup

[RSantangelo]

I had the opportunity to play shinnecock this week.  I was surprised to learn that just about a week ago they cut out some fairway and sodded some fescue to prepare to narrow many of the fairways for the Open.    My understanding is there were some concerns after the low scores at Erin hills and that it is a relatively recent decision.   There were also some deep tee boxes. 


Any insights?

[jeffwarne]

You summed it up.
Embarrassed that the governing bodies can't recognize rain and lack of wind at EH created ideal scoring conditions.
Funny to see them freaking out and cutting fescue on Tuesday at EH only to be planting more at Shinny now,
Knee jerk reactions.
Wind and weather will dictate scores at Shinny-not more rough that the winner won't see anyway.
Sustainability-for all those other people


Or they could address the equipment....
nah just let Shinny and Pebble go the way of Inwood, or better yet-call it a "boutique" Open like Merion.


sad

[Eric LeFante]

I heard when Justin Thomas and Rickie Fowler played Shinnecock this summer they each shot 65 so this could be a reaction to that.

[Tim Gallant]

 

Surprised this wasn't posted earlier (or maybe it was):


https://twitter.com/usopengolf/status/913476045248090112


Jeff Hall (USGA Rules and Competitions) talks about the set-up for the US Open at Shinnecock, and about the fairways being tightened. I haven’t played the course, so can’t comment on how their set-up will play relative to the strategy of each hole, but a few points that were interesting:
 

• It will be the widest the course has played for a US Open
• The 18th fairway was 55 yards wide
• Acknowledges the fairway slope on 18 must be taken into account for determining how tight they want to make it, and says they’ve settled on roughly 42 yards wide fairways
• In US Opens past, the 18th (as an example) played 30 yards wide

He then talks about green expansions that were restored by C&C.


Interesting notes above. Thoughts?

[MClutterbuck]

What type of grass is on fairways right now at Shinnecock? Was it necessary to cut out the existing grass and sod fescue? Will they reverse that post US Open? Will they leave a variety that can be cut to fw height and also left higher for rough as needed?

[RSantangelo]

My understanding is the plan is to restore it post open....but of course, that is subject to change...

[Tom Bacsanyi]

What type of grass is on fairways right now at Shinnecock? Was it necessary to cut out the existing grass and sod fescue? Will they reverse that post US Open? Will they leave a variety that can be cut to fw height and also left higher for rough as needed?

The fairways are almost certainly poa annua with maybe some bent unless they were regrassed recently (which I doubt).  Yes it was then necessary to cut it out, because a bent poa mix grown up to rough height would be a disgusting salad.

[Matthew Rose]

I thought I read there were 10 new tees; anyone know which holes they are?

[Ted Sirbaugh]

I thought I read there were 10 new tees; anyone know which holes they are?

I'm not positive about every one, but I want to say it is 2,3,4,5,6,8,9,14,16,18


16 is probably the biggest distance increase- the tee box is back by the 5th green

[MClutterbuck]

What type of grass is on fairways right now at Shinnecock? Was it necessary to cut out the existing grass and sod fescue? Will they reverse that post US Open? Will they leave a variety that can be cut to fw height and also left higher for rough as needed?

The fairways are almost certainly poa annua with maybe some bent unless they were regrassed recently (which I doubt).  Yes it was then necessary to cut it out, because a bent poa mix grown up to rough height would be a disgusting salad.

Would it make sense to leave fescues o fairway that can be cut to fairway height and left to grow again when needed? Maybe adding some tall fescue seed for US Open?

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Would it make sense to leave fescues o fairway that can be cut to fairway height and left to grow again when needed? Maybe adding some tall fescue seed for US Open?

I am no fescue expert, but my guess is the best performing fescues for rough height are different from the best performing fescues for fairway height.  My guess is also that Shinny will use fescue sod that is as close as possible to what their rough is currently, which is probably an old species that might not tolerate mowing down to fairway height.  Plus if you scalp the rough down to fairway height (assuming it is a species that will allow it) it will look pretty ugly for about a month or so, then it will look much different from the adjacent bent/poa fairway (greener/purer).  I think the theorizing is all pointless though, because I doubt that the lost width will be restored.  I'm sure the membership will want to play the open setup immediately following the event, and any plans to immediately disrupt the playing surface yet again will be quashed.  So in the end, you have a course that had narrowed significantly over the years, some nice width was restored, the USGA backtracked that width somewhat but not to any kind of extreme.  Seeing as Open hosting is part of Shinnecock's lore/history/ethos, I think it's fine.  No reason for anybody to go drowning themselves in Peconic Bay.

[MClutterbuck]

Would it make sense to leave fescues o fairway that can be cut to fairway height and left to grow again when needed? Maybe adding some tall fescue seed for US Open?

I am no fescue expert, but my guess is the best performing fescues for rough height are different from the best performing fescues for fairway height.  My guess is also that Shinny will use fescue sod that is as close as possible to what their rough is currently, which is probably an old species that might not tolerate mowing down to fairway height.  Plus if you scalp the rough down to fairway height (assuming it is a species that will allow it) it will look pretty ugly for about a month or so, then it will look much different from the adjacent bent/poa fairway (greener/purer).  I think the theorizing is all pointless though, because I doubt that the lost width will be restored.  I'm sure the membership will want to play the open setup immediately following the event, and any plans to immediately disrupt the playing surface yet again will be quashed.  So in the end, you have a course that had narrowed significantly over the years, some nice width was restored, the USGA backtracked that width somewhat but not to any kind of extreme.  Seeing as Open hosting is part of Shinnecock's lore/history/ethos, I think it's fine.  No reason for anybody to go drowning themselves in Peconic Bay.

I am no expert either, but I have seen a good mix of 5 fescues work well at fairway height and as rough. Yes, there is some ugly look for a few weeks after you cut it down, but it grows back nicely rather quick. Of course Shinnecock does not have expenses considerations in their mind.

Agreed this would be better if the whole fairway was fescues and I am not sure that would be ideal for Shinnecock climate and usage.
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[Terry Lavin]

If anything bad happens, the club won’t be to blame, because it’s one of the pet courses of the USGA. Double standard, perhaps?

[RSantangelo]

My understanding was the fairway was cut out and planted as sod so that it can be easily replanted post the open which, subject to change i was told by my host is the base case


I believe the fescue came from their own par3 course so it would be as similar as possible to the current fescue....I believe generally where they have used for parking in the past...

[Morgan Clawson]

From Brad Klein:  http://golfweek.com/2017/10/04/shinnecock-hills-gets-longer-more-strategic-for-2018-u-s-open/

[JESII]

I think Pat Mucci was right...if the USGA could get comfortable with seeing brown greens on the telecast, the rest of the issues with "protecting par" would be much less burdensome.


Shinnecock is meant to be brown and it will not be early in the week.