Rank My Courses

[Tom_Doak]

Apparently you have too much free time on your hands.

I've got the week off.  And I'm still really quick at math!

[Paul Jones]

Besides Tara Iti, what was your 2nd biggest surprise?

[Dan Gallaway]

Ballyneal is my #1 of all courses I've played.  How much higher would it be if it had an ocean backdrop?

[Daryl David]

Tom, maybe too late, but here is my list.  It will surely change in the next 7 months as I will see Tara Iti and The Loop.

1. Pac Dunes
2. Ballyneal
3. Barnbougle
4. Old Mac.
5. Streamsong Blue
6. Rock Creek
7. Cape Kidnappers
8. Renaissance Club
9. Tumble Creek
10. St. Andrews Beach
11. Stone Eagle
12. Grand SE
13. Bay of Dreams
14. Common Ground

[Jim Nugent]

Tom , not quite sure I get you point about the Blue course. If only 40-45% favor the Blue then wouldn't a majority favor the Red?

Not necessarily.  Some people might like both courses equally, and some might not be sure. 

[Tom_Doak]

Besides Tara Iti, what was your 2nd biggest surprise?

Honestly, having just been back there, it was the guy who ranked Barnbougle Dunes 7th out of the 8 courses of mine that he'd played:

Old MacDonaldDismal River RedPacific DunesBallynealTumble CreekSebonackBarnbougle DunesStreamsong Blue

Oh, that was you!  Bad day with the driver?

[Peter Pallotta]

A remarkable list for its variety, consistency, quality and (for a hands-on architect) sheer number of courses.

Question: on which of Tom's courses would a 15 handicap who can drive it well,, hit good approach shots, recover smartly and putt decently (though rarely all in a row, on one and the same golf hole) have the best chance of meaningfully competing against a much better golfer? On which course would he have the least chance?

Peter

[Jerry Kluger]

Peter: I would think that the 15 could do quite well on most, if not all, of the courses as they are designed to play firm and fast.  Most of the courses are pretty wide with no forced carries off the tee most greens allowing you to play your approach shot on the ground and you don't have to hit it high and long to score well.  That is especially why I love Ballyneal which gives you so many options as to how you can play most of the holes on the course. 

[Jaeger Kovich]

What an unbelievable resume... really need to get down under!


PAC Dunes 10
Ballyneal 9
Old Mac 8
Dismal 8
Streamsong 8
Stonewall Old 7
Sebonack 7
Lost Dunes 7
Stone Eagle 6
Renaissance Club 6
Black Forest 6
St Emilion 6
Simapo 6
Atlantic City CC 5
Common ground 5
Medinah One 5
Legends 4
Riverfront 4
The Village Club 3

[JMEvensky]

A remarkable list for its variety, consistency, quality and (for a hands-on architect) sheer number of courses.

Question: on which of Tom's courses would a 15 handicap who can drive it well,, hit good approach shots, recover smartly and putt decently (though rarely all in a row, on one and the same golf hole) have the best chance of meaningfully competing against a much better golfer? On which course would he have the least chance?

Peter

How is this unnamed person a 15 if he/she drives it well,hits good approach shots,recovers smartly,and putts decently?

[Sean Walsh]

JMEvensky,


You didn't read his codicil - "(though rarely all in a row, on one and the same golf hole)"


In fact take out "good approach shots" (at their best mine are usually fair to middling) and he described my game fairly well.

[Peter Pallotta]

J & J - yes, as Sean says, the codicil is key. I'm not wildly inconsistent, but I am routinely so. The long drive to the centre of the fairway will be followed by a duck hook into the forest; and an out of bounds tee shot and drop will be followed by an excellent mid iron approach that trickles into the greenside rough. The scores really pile up quick when one only rarely strings 4 quality shots together, but what keeps me in the game is that those quality shots are indeed of good quality. Which of Tom's courses, I wonder, would give such a golfer - he of intermittent merit, but of merit nonetheless - the best chance of winning and/or halving the most number of holes against a better golfer?

[Tom_Doak]

J & J - yes, as Sean says, the codicil is key. I'm not wildly inconsistent, but I am routinely so. The long drive to the centre of the fairway will be followed by a duck hook into the forest; and an out of bounds tee shot and drop will be followed by an excellent mid iron approach that trickles into the greenside rough. The scores really pile up quick when one only rarely strings 4 quality shots together, but what keeps me in the game is that those quality shots are indeed of good quality. Which of Tom's courses, I wonder, would give such a golfer - he of intermittent merit, but of merit nonetheless - the best chance of winning and/or halving the most number of holes against a better golfer?

It must be Tara Iti, since that's where I won the Renaissance Cup.    [Though I did have a very steady partner.]

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, so that's the secret of your success -- design courses that give you the best chance of winning the Renaissance Cup! Who would've ever guessed that the dominate goal/underpinning of top-flight design was so self serving   

It's lucky for you that I haven't played in a Cup event.  I think as a 15 I'd be an much esteemed and sought-after partner for the right (i.e. good) golfer.... 

[Tom_Doak]

Ah, so that's the secret of your success -- design courses that give you the best chance of winning the Renaissance Cup! Who would've ever guessed that the dominate goal/underpinning of top-flight design was so self serving   

It's lucky for you that I haven't played in a Cup event.  I think as a 15 I'd be an much esteemed and sought-after partner for the right (i.e. good) golfer....

The Renaissance Cup is played without handicaps, so like me, you'd better choose a good partner!

[Jason Way]

A remarkable list for its variety, consistency, quality and (for a hands-on architect) sheer number of courses.

Question: on which of Tom's courses would a 15 handicap who can drive it well,, hit good approach shots, recover smartly and putt decently (though rarely all in a row, on one and the same golf hole) have the best chance of meaningfully competing against a much better golfer? On which course would he have the least chance?

Peter

Old Macdonald.  A crafty and experienced player could stay in a match there, in spite of inconsistency. 

[Matt MacIver]

The answer, I think, starts with width. Old Mac and Ballyneal were my first thoughts on that question, since I resemble that golfers qualities.  Those two along with Pac Dunes and Rock Creek rank the highest for me all-in.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Ballyneal...as much fun as you can have on a golf course
Pacific Dunes..was amazed how close to a true links course it really was
Barnbuogle Dunes
Renaissance Club
Streamsong Blue...love the subtlety of the driving selections
St Andrews Beach
Old Macdonald
Stone Eagle..great use of rather difficult terrain
Bahia Los Suenos..in truth only walked the holes and by then it was looking rather down trod.
Rawls Course

Here is my updated list

[Paul Perrella]

Ballyneal
Pacific Dunes
Streamsong
Rock Creek
Old Macdonald
Sebonack
Apache Stronghold
Beechtree
High Point
Heathland