From the ladies tees...

[Thomas Dai]

If you played your home course from the Ladies tees* how much lower do you think your hcp would be (for an amateur) or how much lower do you reckon your gross scores be (for a pro)?


Atb


* assuming your course still has tees That are still called 'the Ladies tees'.

[jeffwarne]

In theory......., your handicap would remain the same as you would be playing a correspondingly lower course rating and slope.


I'm assuming you mean how much lower would your scores be?


It would depend greatly upon how short those forward tees were.
Modern courses tend to have forward tees well under 5000 yards, resulting in a lot of SW par 3's driveable 4's and driver short iron par 5's.
Older courses tend to have forward tees as an afterthougt and usually are less short.


Pretty low for a pro I'd say.
The first time I played our new white tees(5600) I was 8 under through 12(only played 12) and had missed quite a few 10 footers as a result of 3 reachable par 5's with mid-short irons and L wedges to nearly every par 4.
Obviously par might change but the absolute score would be low.i.e. my 8 under would only be 5 under as I had played 3 par 5's .

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm probably the only person to have played all 109 tees at Victoria National. A guy makes a ton of doubles trying to drive greens not designed to be driven. Make me hit driver hard every hole and I play worse from the uber fronts.

[Adrian_Stiff]

We just played a "Mix Up" a few weekends ago 43 points won.


A Mix Up comprises 6 holes you play from the reds (ladies) 6 holes you play from the yellows (tee of the day) and 6 holes from the white tees (backs). You as the player choose your strategy and what combo you want. We have quite a lot of difference with our tees, the format may not work so well if you don't.


People pick very different choices, good players use the red tees at the par 5 holes and perhaps it brings a driveable par 4 into play.


If a lady plays she has to play 12 reds and 6 yellows but gets 125% of her handicap.


The competition was very popular and the captain is considering playing his captains day using the format. Fun and Strategy are the two words to get people thinking about.

[JMEvensky]

We just played a "Mix Up" a few weekends ago 43 points won.


A Mix Up comprises 6 holes you play from the reds (ladies) 6 holes you play from the yellows (tee of the day) and 6 holes from the white tees (backs). You as the player choose your strategy and what combo you want. We have quite a lot of difference with our tees, the format may not work so well if you don't.


People pick very different choices, good players use the red tees at the par 5 holes and perhaps it brings a driveable par 4 into play.


If a lady plays she has to play 12 reds and 6 yellows but gets 125% of her handicap.


The competition was very popular and the captain is considering playing his captains day using the format. Fun and Strategy are the two words to get people thinking about.

A lot of clubs play a red/white/blue tournament on July 4th--same principle.


Agree that it's a fun tournament with each player having to figure out his own strategy.

[Mark_Fine]

We don't have ladies tees.  We have forward tees that lots of different golfers play from. 

[Doug Bolls]

I have been playing from the "forward" tees for about a year now - I gave up my driver and only hit a 3 wood.  I am off the tee anywhere 170-200 and have found my scores usually between 80-86. 
My handicap from the ladies tees is around 16 - about the same for the last 5 years. 
I have found it a much more enjoyable game with 2 goals:  Hit every fairway and finish the round with the same ball I started with.  I just retired a ball after 63 holes and have 27 holes on the ball in my bag right now.  Every once in a while I shoot something low - shot my age last year (73).
I went to the ladies tees as a result of some back problems and a conversation with my orthopaedic surgeon - move up and don't overswing - good advice.

[Duncan Cheslett]

We just got the course rated for men from the Red tees, with a view to allowing for mixed tee competitions, where players play from whichever tee they want and effectively receive a handicap adjustment accordingly.


White SSS     70
Yellow SSS    69
Red SSS        66


As all handicaps are based on performances from the white tees this would suggest that playing from the reds is worth four shots per round.

[Jon Wiggett]

We just got the course rated for men from the Red tees, with a view to allowing for mixed tee competitions, where players play from whichever tee they want and effectively receive a handicap adjustment accordingly.


White SSS     70
Yellow SSS    69
Red SSS        66


As all handicaps are based on performances from the white tees this would suggest that playing from the reds is worth four shots per round.

and also suggest the difference in distance is between 525 and 674 yards if I am correct. I always suggest that golfers play which ever tee they prefer at my place.


Jon

[Ronald Montesano]

It's a great mental-game tool. The notion that you are under the par you normally viewed as unreachable, or are close to it, plays games with your mind (unless it is titanium-strong.) I ask the varsity guys to do this and some have a hard time with it.


What John K. said is also very important. It teaches us the lesson that we shouldn't attempt to bully holes that are not meant to be overwhelmed. When we return to our regular tees, we look at the proper drive zone and the proper approach distance differently. I encourage full rounds from other tees for all. I don't think that a tip-middle-forward tournament once a year is enough to effect this lesson.

[Steve Lang]

  , Yeh, what Ronald and John K said...


Back in 1992, an old marshall challenged me to play par golf from the forward tees and then move back one set at a time, the mental stress of being around par is real in my mind... and I never did crack the black back tees, but i got to a 5 index.  IT was good advice, sorely lost on most golfers.


ps JK
and I may be the only one to have played 531 tees on 117 holes at my WCC home courses




Duncan, I think 4 would be about right at RV, but I'd still give up at least 2 climbing the hill at 18... of course I'd like a retry at that!

[Thomas Dai]

I watched some men's tour TV golf today. There was a big sign behind one tee. It said 'Par-5. 620 yds'. Behind the boardings could be seen a further row of tees stretching back another 100 yds or so. 620 yds? Rubbish! I also recall spectating at a men's Senior Tour event a few years ago where one hole on the hoardings said 430 yds but it was at my then home club so I knew full well that the players were actually playing from in front of the usual members yellows, ie at about 350 yds. Smoke and mirrors for TV scoring?


Getting back to the premise of the thread, it's nice for shorter hitters and those getting on in years to play and once again have to hit mid/short irons on all the par-3's, as second shots on most of the par-4's and to occasionally get near a par-5 in two shots. Endless use of fairway metals, hybrids and long-irons can get pretty boring after a while.

I like the idea of a 6-6-6 back-yellow-red tee competition so thanks for the suggestion. I have played a 6-6-6 as  4bbb-greensomes-foursomes before. That was good fun.


Atb

[Jason Topp]

I did it in an event this year and shot 76 as a 10 handicap.  I felt pretty good about until I entered the score and the resulting calculation yielded a handicap score similar to my more normal 85.

[Sean_A]

We have a 6-6-6 comp at Burnham and I gotta say some of the forward tees are very awkward for giys who hit the ball 230+.  I often play several forward tees in a round during winter in an effort to play the closest tee to the previous green (I hate walking back to tees).  Burnham is still plenty hard enoiugh.  In any case, we have a twist in the comp.  Once the handicap allowance is exhausted a flag is put in the ground to mark how far you made it around the course.  Most of the time the winner makes back ariund to #1 or even #2. 


Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

David: I have to disagree with your statement above concerning the pros and how far they hit the ball.  My club hosts a PGA Tour Champions event every year and I can tell you that they hit from the back tees and they hit it incredibly far.  The course was playing firm and fast but still 300+ yard drives were quite common.  We have played together so you know how far I can hit a drive and they were able to hit it 80 to 100 yards further - just incredible.


With respect to your question of playing from the most forward tees I have done this and clearly the par 5s become easily reachable and you are playing much shorter clubs into greens and scoring much better.  On the other hand, moving up only one set of tees doesn't always translate into lower scores. 


I do think many clubs, including mine, should move the tee up every once in a while on a par 4 where it could then become drivable to some players who normally would have no chance to do so.  Coore & Crenshaw have tried on most of their courses to have at least one hole where a par 4 is reachable for players of all levels.

[Thomas Dai]

Jerry,


Apologies if my words weren't very clear (my ramblings as a frustrated short hitter!?😄) for the pros, leading amateurs and others do indeed hit the ball incredibly far...the amount of time the ball stays in the air is almost unbelieveable. My particular gripe on this occasion is the accuracy of yardages on signage and on TV etc where the yardage stated isn't in reality what it states. Faux yardages might be a description.


I appreciate what you mean about moving up just one set of tees not necessarily leading to lower scores and the C&C idea of at least one reachable par-4 for all seems cool.


As an aside, many years ago I played an event on an out-n-back links course in extremely high wind. The organiser realised that many/most of the players wouldn't be able reach the fairways on the into-the-wind back-9 so he tweeked the format/tees to be whites on the way out and reds on the way back. When players were told this before going many/most moaned but he stuck to his guns and when all were back on the Clubhouse after their rounds their thoughts had changed and the concensus was very much in favour of the revised set-up. This was a small field event however, rather than a full day, so things went well...if the wind had 'turned' around the other way part way through there'd have probably been some hassle.


Looking forward to getting together with you and the others again. Carne, Enniscrone etc were such fun.


Atb

[Mark Smolens]

About 15 years ago I convinced the group I played with on Sundays at Pine Meadow in Mundelein to play the red tees during our regular Sunday game. Two of the guys in the group were mid single digit players, but neither broke 80. It wasn't even trying to drive greens (the course wasn't that short). It's just that normal lines of play didn't work anymore. Drives thru the fwy into a hazard were common. Since I generally bunt the ball around anyway, I dominated them, but still barely broke par. It's not as easy from way up as you'd think...

I read once that Mr. Nicklaus's father had him play the forward tees at Scioto on Sunday afternoon outings with his family (incl. Mom and sister) to try to teach him how to be unafraid to go low. I suppose that if I were a member of a club and played the same course most of the time, this is an exercise I'd participate in.