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Ronald Montesano

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He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« on: July 24, 2016, 07:42:40 PM »
"The finest golf course tied to a learning institution in North America is found in Culver, Indiana."


Thus spake Zarathustra.


Yale and Williams, sorry, you're numbers two and three at best.


I've never seen this Culver Academy course. Can someone who has seen Culver, Yale and Taconic comment on the validity of the italicized statement?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Stephen Northrup

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2016, 07:55:10 PM »
We're not counting Trump University? ;)

Sven Nilsen

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 08:39:22 PM »
Ron:


I suspect you'd have to dissect Ran's lexical semantics to fully appreciate the quote.


Yale and Taconic are much better courses than Culver (right now).  But there is an antique waiting to be dusted off and shown the light of day underneath the neglected vacation home covers currently hovering over the bones of the military "institution" course. 


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Ronald Montesano

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 09:30:35 PM »
Semantics, shmantics.


Bones are bones. Are you telling me that, when fully dusted, oiled, sanded and stained, Culver will be of greater quality than Yale and Taconic? I think the world of Taconic, but it doesn't threaten Yale. Yale has brilliance AND a really solid piece of land. Culver will have to offer quite a bit to match, to say nothing of surpassing, Yale.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Bart Bradley

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 09:31:40 PM »
Ron:


I suspect you'd have to dissect Ran's lexical semantics to fully appreciate the quote.


Yale and Taconic are much better courses than Culver (right now).  But there is an antique waiting to be dusted off and shown the light of day underneath the neglected vacation home covers currently hovering over the bones of the military "institution" course. 


Sven


Sven:


Bobby Weed has fully restored Culver.  It is in full glory.  I am sure Ran will soon post more info.


Bart

Rees Milikin

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 10:03:59 PM »
From friends of mine that have played there and shared pictures, Ran isn't blowing smoke.

Stephen Northrup

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 10:19:38 PM »
Ran has already posted more info -- check the updated course review

Sven Nilsen

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 01:16:22 AM »
Glad to hear the work went through.  Ran's pictures bring to life what one could tell was waiting to be revealed.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

BCrosby

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 08:41:34 AM »
I went to Culver and played on the golf team. I have played Yale several times. Yale is a better course, though Culver has its moments.

My interest in golf architecture began at Culver. Langford's fascinating routing and bunker schemes impressed even a dense teenager.   

I think the right take on Culver is that it is the best course in America associated with a prep school.

Bob

William_G

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It's all about the golf!

Ronald Montesano

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 11:34:17 AM »
I went to Culver and played on the golf team. I have played Yale several times. Yale is a better course, though Culver has its moments.

My interest in golf architecture began at Culver. Langford's fascinating routing and bunker schemes impressed even a dense teenager.   

I think the right take on Culver is that it is the best course in America associated with a prep school.

Bob


You attending Culver explains a lot about the man you are, senyor Bob. They should be quite proud of you.


I suspected that someone would say this, although Jim Kennedy might want to have a Hotchkiss v. Culver battle for NAIS supremacy. Nichols cannot compete, as we do not own the supremely-underrated Delaware Park Meadows course across the way from our campus.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 11:48:01 AM »
Ian Larson presented on his recent work on Culver during last year's GCA "Barn Fest," organized by Joe Bausch. Here is a video of his presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_IHZ615ULg

Peter Korbakes

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2016, 09:39:14 PM »
Ron--


Unfortunately I have yet to play Yale/Taconic so I cannot comment on comparability. But as Sven said, there is a serious antique waiting to reveal itself underneath a little dust in Culver, IN. I spent the 4th on Lake Maxinkuckee last year, went around the track 4-5 times. Here are a few of the pics I took in addition to those Ran has presented:


Below is the 1st from the high point in the fairway, about 180 yards out. You can take a 7 iron and run it all the down the left and feeds to the back right. It's amazing terrain to start





here is from the green looking back:

Here's a bunker that's hidden from the first tee, but is challenging to the long hitter, I took the first photo I attached just on the top of that ridge. Hit it in this bunker, pay the price:

Here's a view of the 3rd green, you can see the elevation on the top left of the photo, that's the first hole in the distance. If you look closely on the green, you can see that huge swale that feeds to the 7 o'clock in our picture. To my understanding that is all green space recovered from Weed.

here's another view of the 3rd, you can get a better look at that swale, and then you can see the entirety of the 4th in the distance. the hole is 370 but 270 to carry on a direct line to the green uphill, I'm not short by any means but it was so hard to carry the bank. I think this whole is world clasd :



here's the view from the tee, i think this hole is incredible because you can play 6 iron-8iron, hybrid-pw, 3wd flip wedge, driver-bump in. What's amazing is the farther you go the more sloped (above your feet) your second shot will be:

here's from the green looking back, you can see the kick plate in the front right:

here's the 8th, the front third was seriously expanded, you can see it a little here although Ran photographed it perfectly:

Finally, the 9th. The 9th reminds me a bit of the 18th at Gulph Mills, it's a hole which the longer player can get to in 2, and there's nothing like making that final climb up and watching your 2nd/3rd sail down the hill into another green which allows balls to roll around:

Is it better than Yale? Probably not, but I think Culver is a top 10 hidden gem in the country. It's golf as we all talk about on here, firm, fast, very walkable, each hole is interesting on its own. I absolutely love looping around the Academies course. I played a few times with 10 sticks, and then at the crack of dawn I'd go 6i/sw/putter and just had a ball. There was a line on here I saw a few years back, "I believe there is a direct correlation between how long your ball rolls on the ground and how much fun one has on a course," there's a pretty high correlation out at Culver.



Jason Way

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Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2016, 10:51:24 PM »
Thanks for sharing Peter.  Great stuff.  Happy to have you out of the lurking shadows.


One of the (many) things I love about 9-holers like Culver is they so naturally fit with playing creatively.  When you know that you are going back around again so soon, why not see what it's like to play a hole in an "unconventional" way?  Spots like this bring out the fun and creativity for me.


Can't wait to golf my ball around that joint.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: He's Nothing If Not Controversial, That Ran
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2016, 01:44:43 PM »
My school ostensibly has a rivalry of sorts with Culver. Hopefully it's not during hockey season.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!