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Thomas Dai

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Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« on: January 09, 2017, 04:10:07 PM »
A photo recently posted showed a par-4 that dog-legged to the left but where the fairway slope cambered to the right.


Good, bad or fine occasionally as a bit of variety?


Atb
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 04:13:07 PM »
A cool feature very occasionally but only with a soft dog-leg.
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Peter Pallotta

Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 04:34:49 PM »
Thomas - rightly or wrongly the first course I think of is Olympic. For years I've read crtiques re the trees and the narrowness and the small greens and the difficulty and the damp air/turf, but to me it all seems a marvellous combination and there are few big name courses I'd rather get a chance to play. I may not be able to hit old school golf shots like those that a reverse camber dogleg demands, but I would love the chance to try.
Peter
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Keith Phillips

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 05:20:37 PM »
The 10th hole at Jupiter Hills (Hills course) is such a hole, with the added interest of an approach to a green that is steeply uphill.  It is a terrific hole, with a slight dogleg right and a sharply right-to-left sloping fairway.  A power fade would be the ideal tee shot here, but alas I don't have that in my repertoire so tend to play my approach from the left rough!
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 05:25:17 PM »
The classic in the UK has to be the 17th at Wentworth West (Burma Road) Very tough drive but otherwise a straight forward par 5.


Jon
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Scott Szabo

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 05:40:43 PM »
Ballyneal #10 is such a hole, if you can't carry the bunker at the inside of the dogleg.  Tee shots will tend to move left, at times all the way down into a bowl from which the golfer can't see the green.  Great hole.
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Greg Taylor

Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 06:05:01 PM »
14th at ANGC
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Sean_A

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 06:16:23 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on January 09, 2017, 04:10:07 PM
A photo recently posted showed a par-4 that dog-legged to the left but where the fairway slope cambered to the right.


Good, bad or fine occasionally as a bit of variety?


Atb


ATB


Your city club has a very dubious hole of this description  8)


I like the idea for the odd hole if there is enough to accomodate straight shots or if there is a way to cheat on the inside of the leg. I don't think forcing a guy to hit a shaped drive to have a chance to stay on the fairway is good design.  Bottom line for me, this type of hole is rarely done well.


Ciao 
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Terry Lavin

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 08:25:48 PM »
Olympic has too many. Olympia has a great one (#11 North) and Bayonet is (or was ten years ago) a torture chamber because of overuse of this feature IIRC.
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Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2017, 09:42:24 PM »
I love awkwardness of the reverse camber short second at Aronimink. Really excited to see it fully restored!
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Scott Warren

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 12:57:50 AM »
18 at Friar's Head comes to mind. And it's a superb shot and hole to close a superb set of shots and holes!


Making a reverse-camber dogleg a quality hole requires great balance in the slopes, degree of dogleg, severity of misses etc IMO. But the very best ones are the types of holes so rarely seen that they invariably feel special.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 01:00:01 AM by Scott Warren »
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Matthew Mollica

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 04:55:46 AM »
The eighth at Cypress Point is a neat example.
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John Ezekowitz

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 09:16:37 AM »
A slight variation on this hole that I enjoy and don't see very often is a fairly straight par 4 with the fairway cambering one way, but the rough cutting in diagonally from the other side. One example that springs to mind is the first at my home course, Belmont Country Club (at some point a Ross). This obviates some of the issues that Sean has identified with no ability to hit a straight drive and stay in the fairway, but requires placement with the drive.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 09:33:34 AM »
I have not played many of them but like it on the odd hole. I think it isn't bad to have to shape a shot now and again. If you can't do it--practice. Not every hole should accommodate a poorer player.
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John Ezekowitz

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 10:08:50 AM »
I should add that the 14th at Springdale is a fantastic example of where a reverse camber dog-leg works well.

Two pictures from Joe Bausch: http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/springdale/pages/page_77.html

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/springdale/pages/page_79.html
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 11:15:45 AM »
The first that comes to mind for me around SE PA is the 10th at Gulph Mills (home of The Lurker).  A few photos starting here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/GulphMills/pages/page_52.html?
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mike_malone

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 01:08:52 PM »
I think Gulph Mills is by necessity because of inserting the driving range. I hope they have removed evergreens on the right which ruined the tee shot.


Flynn did #10 at Lancaster, a four,  and #18 at Rolling Green, a five.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 01:22:38 PM »
Quote from: Terry Lavin on January 09, 2017, 08:25:48 PM
Olympic has too many. Olympia has a great one (#11 North) and Bayonet is (or was ten years ago) a torture chamber because of overuse of this feature IIRC.


Agreed about Olympic, especially the 4th.  I hit a decent (for me) tee ball that wound up what felt like 400 yards from the green!
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David_Tepper

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Re: Reverse camber dog-leg holes
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 03:56:00 PM »
There is a reverse camber dog-leg on the 9-hole Aetna Springs course (Pope Valley, CA). I think it is the 6th or 7th hole. Slopes left, dog-legs right.
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