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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pics Please ~ The 1st at Pasa
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2015, 04:12:18 PM »
  It just suffers more than it would otherwise due to all of the other world class holes found on that course.

I don't recall Pasatiempo having a plethora of "world class holes."  I assume the usual suspects are 3, 10, 11 and 16?
 
I'm not nit-picking here.  I'd like to hear from you and others which holes are truly great and why.
 
Thanks.
 
Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pics Please ~ The 1st at Pasa
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2015, 04:29:09 PM »
  It just suffers more than it would otherwise due to all of the other world class holes found on that course.

I don't recall Pasatiempo having a plethora of "world class holes."  I assume the usual suspects are 3, 10, 11 and 16?
 
I'm not nit-picking here.  I'd like to hear from you and others which holes are truly great and why.
 
Thanks.
 
Mike

Micheal,

Three things.

1)  I never used the word plethora...only other.  ;)

2)  4 World Class holes is 4 more than 99.99% of other golf course have.

3)  I would also put #2, 8, 13, 14, and 18 as extremely good/terrific, even if they aren't "world class". 


P.S.  The back 9 to this day still remains the finest set of 9 holes I've played.  Just a terrific routing from head to toe which includes 3 world class holes and 3 other very, very good ones.  And the other 3 aren't exactly slouches either.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Pics Please ~ The 1st at Pasa
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2015, 04:44:32 PM »

would the powers that be at Pasa ever be interested in returning #1 to its former self, up to an including using a top tee, converting back to a par 5 and reclaiming back part of the driving range?  I think it would need to keep the trees separating the 1st and 9th holes, but the rest could be put back in place it seems.


Kalen:


I'm the one who converted the 1st hole to a par-4 by abandoning the "top tee".  My logic was that the top tee wasn't original ... MacKenzie's first tee was further left toward the driving range, and only 470 yards, which in olden days made it a par-5.  But the "top tee" which had been added later was a liability nightmare in its own right; anytime it was being used, you were firing over the heads of people going back and forth from the pro shop to the range.


Also, it's in their bylaws that anything they build on the course now must be restorative in nature ... i.e. they don't have to restore everything, but they can't make a change that isn't a restoration to the original design.


I did once suggest that they abandon the range altogether and utilize that whole area for the first hole as it had been originally.  They didn't go for it, and I doubt they ever will.


P.S. to Tim Fenchel:  With the out-of-bounds left for the driving range, and people's natural tendency to slice, removing the trees from the right side of the first hole would likely result in a lawsuit within the first month.  I hate when design comes to that ... but when you're in California where people sue over every little thing, you have to consider it.  Perhaps now that Jim Urbina is their consultant, he can take down all the trees ...

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pics Please ~ The 1st at Pasa
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2015, 05:06:12 PM »
Tom,

Thanks for the clarification on the 1st hole.  Sounds like it was indeed a very calculated and well reasoned move in light of all the issues they have to deal with (California considerations especially)...as opposed to something along the lines of blatant mayhem.

P.S.  Was there any discussion in putting the right hand fairway bunker back on #1?..not that it needs it...its already a very stern opener as is.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Pics Please ~ The 1st at Pasa
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2015, 05:22:19 PM »
I would agree with Kalen on the other exceptionally good (if not world-class) holes, with two modifications.  Given the absurd green on #8, I would not put it in the good category, but I would add #17 as a very good hole.
Also, while I wouldn't rave about the 1st hole, I don't find it to be anywhere near as bad as John says.  It's a nice way to start a good course.
Pasatiempo is a very good golf course--maybe not in the top 25 in the world, but close.  Many memorable holes--and very fun to play.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 05:24:54 PM by Jim Hoak »