[Kalen Braley]

I've recently seen some threads going around on the best par 3s and par 5s, which got me thinking about par 4s.  In your opinion, who builds the best par 4s and why?  Please cite specific examples if possible
 
For sake of argument, its best to stick with architects who have designed/built multiple courses so we have multiple data points to go from.  No doubt a course like Pine Valley and Oakmont exist out there with outstanding par 4s, but these are one-off/one-of-a-kind type deals.  So of those architects who have been more promiscuous and "got-around" which one would you say builds/built the best par 4s?
 
I'll start off with my two cents...and I fully understand my background and exposure is nowhere near as extensive as many on this site.  I know I'll certainly be called a butt-boy, but screw it cause I don't really care as I think he does amazing stuff in my book.....so I gotta go with our own Tom D.
 
My data points would be holes:
#2, 6, and 7 at Pacific Dunes
#7, 12, and 13 at Ballyneal
#5, 11 and 14-16 at Rock Creek.
 
All fantastic and world class holes in my book.  And this is not to say these are the only terrific holes at these courses, but the ones that stand out the most to me.
 
#1b would Dr. MacK.  Between what he's done at Pasatiempo and Cypress Point alone, put him way up there...just sheer brilliance in his work at those courses.  And then seeing his other work on TV like Royal Melbourne, ANGC amongst others...

[Peter Pallotta]

I can't answer, Kalen, but I didn't want this to drop too far down the page. From one average golfer's perspective (mine), and to paraphrase* by dear Benny Goodman: "If you can't design great Par 4s, you can't design".  Par 3s are easy enough if you have a decent site, and Par 5s are almost never very good, so you'd better be able to prove yourself on the Par 4s -- for me the best holes in golf, and the essence of the game.

Peter

* Benny used to rehearse his big band without a drummer. If a newly-hired musician complained (justifiably) that the drummer provided the very beat on which swing was based, Benny would say (justifiably): "If you can't swing without a drummer, you can't swing". 

[JESII]

Did he say promiscuous?

CBM?

[Kalen Braley]

Did he say promiscuous?

CBM?

Indeed I did, just making sure everyone was awake. 
 
CBMs stuff does look fascinating, although I can say I have no experience with that...

[Mike_Young]

I do....

[Bill_McBride]

I do....

Which ones?


Love #2 at The Fields, 16 at Longshadow. 

[Mike_Young]

I do....

Which ones?


Love #2 at The Fields, 16 at Longshadow.

It doesn't matter.  you choose....but meanwhile just think about the question....can't be answered....

[Kalen Braley]

I do....

Which ones?


Love #2 at The Fields, 16 at Longshadow.

It doesn't matter.  you choose....but meanwhile just think about the question....can't be answered....

Fair enough Mike, its certainly based on a matter of opinion.  But I think there are some clear lines in the sand that can be drawn
 
I don't think anyone will ever confuse or make a case that the joe-smhoe muni down the street is in the same league with the epic courses around the world, even if the stuff at the top is up for debate....

[Patrick_Mucci]

MOTHER NATURE   

[Scott Weersing]

I guess I would have to go with some of our favorite modern architects.


Coore and Crenshaw build great par 4s. I like no. 6 at Bandon Trails with various lines to play. I am sure we could make a list of the best par 4s from C and C. (on a side note, C and C are on a roll with Cabot Cliffs in 2015 and Sand Valley, WI and Trinity Forest, TX in 2017.)


Gil Hanse has some memorable par 4s. I like no. 11 and no. 12 at Rustic Canyon.


And of course, Mike Strantz with par 4s like no. 1 at Royal New Kent.

[Mike_Young]

I do....

Which ones?


Love #2 at The Fields, 16 at Longshadow.

It doesn't matter.  you choose....but meanwhile just think about the question....can't be answered....

Fair enough Mike, its certainly based on a matter of opinion.  But I think there are some clear lines in the sand that can be drawn
 
I don't think anyone will ever confuse or make a case that the joe-smhoe muni down the street is in the same league with the epic courses around the world, even if the stuff at the top is up for debate....

Kalen,
I would bet there are some muni's out there that have the same par 4 as "the greatest ODG private courses".  The conditioning may not be as good as one would like, the greens may not be as fast or the bunkers quite as deep but the basic shot values would be the same.  There is only so much one can do and any par 4 done today is a copy of one done somewhere in the past...IMHO...

[Jason Chambers]

I have to agree with Mr. Mucci....mother nature does the best work.  A good architect can highlight that.  Pebble could have been a layout like firestone, where the holes jig and jog back and forth towards the ocean...instead, they were laid along it. 
Unfortunately, any schmo can design 'A' world class par 4 (blind squirrel and all).  What I enjoy is the mix of 4's that take you through an experience.  C&C are fun in that manner, as they have a good mix on their few courses I have had the honor to play.  I have not had such a chance to play Mr. Doak's layouts (but look forward to), but expect a symphony of holes.
Stanley Thompson did some fun work north of the border as well.
And as to the comment on the par 5's, really?  They are some of the most fun if thought out well.  And offer the most risk reward, but, like 4's, need to be thought through.  The number of strokes is irrelevant...except 3's, you are right...except for Cypress, they are one shotters that are either found or not.
But, as always, my 2 cents..

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()