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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2015, 02:10:38 PM »
Kalen:


I must have missed something at Indian Canyon; whatever it was, I like White Bear Yacht Club about 1,000 times more.




Morgan:


Thanks for the nice tour.  I have not seen the course in many years, and I miss going back there.  Jim Urbina has been doing the consulting work there since we parted ways, since he had been making visits following up our initial work there.  I don't know if they have done anything more to it lately; we rebuilt a few bunkers they had changed, as well as the 8th hole, and tried to get some of the mowing lines back out to where they should be.


My two favorite holes are the 5th and 12th.  I've never seen anything like them.  I plan to include a diagram of the 12th in the next edition of The Confidential Guide.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2015, 02:31:47 PM »
Super terrain. Must infuriate those who rely on rangefinders rather than their eyes/brain. Nice to see a course with some bunkerless greens.
Many thanks for sharing.
atb
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 02:53:11 PM by Thomas Dai »

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2015, 02:41:02 PM »
There is a house for sale off the 1st tee right now. I was about right in my guess for asking price. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/2248161_zpid/45.093557,-92.961664,45.083831,-92.97943_rect/15_zm/1_fr/?3col=true

Chriss,  I'm glad that you included this link.  There are some nice photos of the hand-laid field stone fence that borders the 1st fairway and green.  I admire that fence every time I'm there, and it lends a lot of vintage charm to that hole.  The house was built in 1916, a year after the 2nd nine opened.  My guess is that the fence was built around that time too, so it's been part of WBYC since the early years.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 03:05:12 PM by Morgan Clawson »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2015, 03:55:04 PM »
Kalen:

I must have missed something at Indian Canyon; whatever it was, I like White Bear Yacht Club about 1,000 times more.

Morgan:

Thanks for the nice tour.  I have not seen the course in many years, and I miss going back there.  Jim Urbina has been doing the consulting work there since we parted ways, since he had been making visits following up our initial work there.  I don't know if they have done anything more to it lately; we rebuilt a few bunkers they had changed, as well as the 8th hole, and tried to get some of the mowing lines back out to where they should be.

My two favorite holes are the 5th and 12th.  I've never seen anything like them.  I plan to include a diagram of the 12th in the next edition of The Confidential Guide.


Tom Doak,


From what I hear from my brother-in-law who is a member, and from what I see when he has me out there to play, Jim Urbina has primarily been taking down trees and tweaking the mowing lines. For example, there is a huge mound/hill half way between the tee and green on the right side of #10 that used to be all rough, but is now ~60% fairway. Also, a lot of trees near greens have been removed and a bunch have been removed to open up some nice vistas such as to the right of #4 where now you can see the vineyard next door. I also heard from our superintendant that they are planning on rebuilding all of their tee boxes due to years of wear, tear, and topdressing.


What are the odds of White Bear being featured as a Gourmet Choice for Vol. 3? From Darius Oliver's trip to T&C and Minnesota this past summer, he certainly seems to hold it in very high regard.
H.P.S.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2015, 04:21:34 PM »

What are the odds of White Bear being featured as a Gourmet Choice for Vol. 3? From Darius Oliver's trip to T&C and Minnesota this past summer, he certainly seems to hold it in very high regard.


It's on the bubble.  I've made most of my cuts, but one of the final choices is between White Bear and Yale.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2015, 10:13:18 AM »
Morgan
Thanks for the fine tour!  The terrain is incredible.  Do you think the bunkering enhances the aesthetics of the terrain? 
Ciao

Sean, that's a good question.  I would say that the bunkers don't necessarily enhance the aesthetics of the terrain.  The one exception would be the big bunker on the first hole.  The size and position of that bunker helps to define the hill that the green sits atop.  It also adds some drama to the hole.

The terrain is so interesting and challenging at WBYC that on most of the holes bunkers really aren't needed.   In fact, they took out a lot of bunkers that were in front of the greens on 7 and 16 (both par 5s).

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2015, 10:33:12 AM »
I agree with Morgan on the bunkering. It almost feels like the bunker on 1 is so impressive in its scale and depth that it lets the rest of the course's bunkers off the hook for panache and allows them to simply function as sand hazards. The ones fronting the green on 12 are quite intimidating as well, and the ones on 14 serve more of an aesthetic purpose than others on the course.


Overall though, the course's interest definitely stems from its rollicking terrain. For my tastes, the bunkers have an appropriately subdued appearance that keeps them from distracting a golfer's eye from the wild slopes throughout the property that give the course its real interest. Even the bold bunkers on 1 and 12 really do more to accentuate the slopes they're cut into than to draw the golfer's eye to the sand itself.


Like Tom, I think 5 and 12 are standouts. The aesthetics of the tee shots on each hole feel a little odd with the road cutting across both and the row of hedges at 12, but the tee-to-green interest of each hole quickly overrides any distraction from the odd setting of the teeing ground. The approach to 12 is particularly captivating, especially if you do what I did what my friend did and pop your drive up and hit a tree on the right side to leave a 250 yard approach. It's a real thrill to hit a long shot over the wall of sod and sand fronting the green and down the slope toward the pin. My friend told me it's a real thrill, I mean.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 12:04:17 PM by Jason Thurman »
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2015, 11:08:23 AM »
I've never played WBYC so I have nothing much of value to add but did want to mention that I'm really enjoying this tour and discussion.   Thanks Morgan and all.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2015, 12:10:05 PM »
I've never played WBYC so I have nothing much of value to add but did want to mention that I'm really enjoying this tour and discussion.   Thanks Morgan and all.


Mike,


Same here. It is a tribute to GolfClubAtlas - the site at its best.
Tim Weiman

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2015, 01:20:19 PM »
Morgan
Thanks for the fine tour!  The terrain is incredible.  Do you think the bunkering enhances the aesthetics of the terrain? 
Ciao

Sean, that's a good question.  I would say that the bunkers don't necessarily enhance the aesthetics of the terrain.  The one exception would be the big bunker on the first hole.  The size and position of that bunker helps to define the hill that the green sits atop.  It also adds some drama to the hole.

The terrain is so interesting and challenging at WBYC that on most of the holes bunkers really aren't needed.   In fact, they took out a lot of bunkers that were in front of the greens on 7 and 16 (both par 5s).


I understand what you guys are saying, but I personally think they should redo the bunkers. They are in pretty tired shape. I don't know if it'll add to the look of the course or not, but I think they should be rebuilt.
H.P.S.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2015, 01:26:25 PM »
I agree with Pat. The photos show an incredible course thanks to the land movement. But the bunkers look tired and in need of rebuild.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2015, 01:50:08 PM »
I've not played the course but am slightly surprised I'm not hearing more love for the 3rd. I could probably live on a golfing diet of shorts such as that hole for the rest of my days.

I wonder whether some cut lines couldn't be moved back a bit to provide a bit more short grass.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2015, 07:41:23 PM »
All -
Thanks for the kind words.   


Paul - I'm a big fan of #3. It's a good example of a hole that just fits perfectly into an interesting piece of terrain.  Its my 2nd favorite par 3 after #11. But, this would be my favorite par 3 on most courses.

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wonderful White Bear - A photo tour
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2015, 12:46:39 AM »
White Bear is not to be missed for sure... I put it in the category of  "most fun" golf courses to play
   along with Yeamans and now that I just played it..  Eastward Ho.

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