I'm all Redan'd out

[Philip Hensley]

Was there a GCA seminar for TV golf commentators about 2 months ago? I feel like I've heard the word Redan constantly on PGA Tour coverage since. Commentators falling over themselves to point out every single Redan or Redan-esque hole. A commentator during the US Open talked about a player that had "used the Redan" to get the ball near the hole.


Are commentators becoming more GCA savvy or just repeating words they heard from Gil Hanse on FOX?

[Tim Gavrich]

I guess this arcs back to the question of whether we really want the wider golf-viewing public to start caring and recognizing more about architecture. Because most of the commentators aren't incredibly savvy themselves, and have to act largely as ciphers for folks like Hanse when they are part of broadcasts, they're not going to put it incredibly eloquently while they're still getting the hang of it themselves.


Personally, I'm willing to be patient on this one. I certainly can't rule out it wearing on me, too, but I appreciate the fledgling effort. It comes from a place that is friendly to our cause, IMO.

[Peter Pallotta]

Philip - yes, I've noticed that too. I think it's because the Redan is the only template worthy of the name. If I were a tv announcer I wouldn't be using "Long" or "Short", as both would sound like I was idiotically stating the obvious; and we've all seen so many "Capes" at every middling PGA Tour stop that I wouldn't try to sell that either. I have no idea what qualifies as a true 'Hog's Back", so it's out; and the tour pros don't play many "Punchbowls" or "Alps" or "Roads", so they're out too. On the other end of the spectrum, we've all played dozens of "Edens" (so, meh), and I've always thought the two tiers/swale in the middle of a "Biarritz" rather banal/obvious in aesthetics and challenge -- so they are out as well. We've got the Redan to impress our friends, that's about it.
 
Peter
 

[John Kavanaugh]

Our friends aren't impressed. There isn't a poster on this board that hasn't misused the term Redan one too many times. It's kinda like talking about feelings that first time you fall in love.

[Steve Lang]

   Don't worry, they'll put a new slant on it!

[John McCarthy]

3 years ago Ian Baker Finch had a full discussion of the various templates at the Greenbriar 3 years ago.  He knows his architecture. 

I have to say the more template talk the better.  This site is a testament to the power of occult knowledge...we are in on it and everyone else is on the outs!  But the more knowledge the better. 

As I am typing this I am watching the rerun...Faldo describing Tiger's round mentioned Eden and Plataues....close enough Nick.

[Philip Hensley]

I'm glad to hear someone like IBF incorporate true GCA knowledge into his commentary, and any other of the commentators that use it organically to heighten the audience's enjoyment of the course. It certainly is preferable over the typical commentator opinion that a course is nice because it is green and manicured well.


But for the rest of them, it seems like they learned one thing about architecture (what a Redan is), and then run over each other trying to point out this one very specific thing over and over again.

[Charlie_Bell]

Stage II is when they leap to pronounce "North Berwick" like a local.

[Jim Hoak]

Did everyone hear Peter Kostis on Golf Channel Thursday make a very good defense of old architecture--and wonder why modern architects couldn't be equally creative? 

[BCrosby]

Wasn't Kostis the guy who recently blamed the distance pros now hit the ball on the length architects are designing holes? Isn't that like blaming the rain today on the fact that I am carrying an umbrella?


To get back on topic, the more mention of Redans the better. Whether rightly or wrongly used. Anything that focuses attention on the design of a hole is a step in the right direction. Only when Faldo starts talking about a Spion Kop hole or a Walkinshaw bunker is when I'll begin to worry.


As others have said here many times, I do not understand why modern architects don't use Redanish greens more often, whether on par 3's, 4's or 5's. The simple act of setting a green's axis at an angle to the centerline of the fairway does so many good things. It increases the interest of the hole, it costs no more to build than a regular face-on green and adds no upkeep expenses. I don't get it. So maybe talking it up such holes will help.


Bob

[Pete_Pittock]

relax, this week's word is Biarritz

[Patrick_Mucci]

 
Philip,
 
I equate the commentators to the women who have recently had breast implants.
 
They're both proud of their newly acquired assets, physical and intellectual.
 
Was there a GCA seminar for TV golf commentators about 2 months ago? I feel like I've heard the word Redan constantly on PGA Tour coverage since. Commentators falling over themselves to point out every single Redan or Redan-esque hole. A commentator during the US Open talked about a player that had "used the Redan" to get the ball near the hole.


Are commentators becoming more GCA savvy or just repeating words they heard from Gil Hanse on FOX?

[Doug Siebert]

Wasn't Kostis the guy who recently blamed the distance pros now hit the ball on the length architects are designing holes? Isn't that like blaming the rain today on the fact that I am carrying an umbrella?

There probably is a bit of effect there. A guy like Calvin Peete couldn't make the tour today; the average driving distance is probably a few yards higher simply because success on the tour (and probably on the qualifying school layout) has a certain minimum length requirement for success....or someone who is REALLY good with fairway woods.