Do You Wish Tillie had More Seaside Opportunities?

[SPDB]

Tillinghast is the consummate parkland (for lack of a better designation) designer, and his inland designs are, pound for pound, without peer.

But his only crack at a seaside property (that I know of), produced the incomparable Newport CC, which bears little resemblance in its appearance and strategy to his inland designs.

Do you wish he had more opportunities to design these types of courses? If he had, do you think he would be viewed in a different light, perhaps as a master of versatility?

It would be interesting to me to think of some of the better known seaside courses, and try to visualize what a Tillie course would look like in its place. Obvious examples would include Pebble, Cypress, NGLA and some others (Eastward Ho! to be timely).

What do you think?

[TEPaul]

I'd love it if Tillinghast had done lots more courses in lots more diverse places. I do think that what he did though shows some of the greatest versatility of any single architect.

George Thomas, however, probably takes the cake for versatility and one needs to see his first work at Marion G.C. to understand why--it looks like the work of a very creative five year old and probably looks more like a steeplechase course than a golf course.

The study of how some of those early architects evolved through their careers is really fascinating though, and at present still very much untapped and unknown, in my opinion. That and the study and discovery of how they may have influenced each other in interesting ways!

I don't know how well they knew each other or if they influenced each other at all but to me in a generic sense there seems to be remarably general similarities between some of the things Tillinghast did and some of the things MacKenzie did.

I think both took architecture out of it's formative years (in America) into the 1920s and 1930s and went to far greater heights than most any of the others in dabbling with ways to blend nature and man-made construction best--far better, in my opinion than the likes of MacDonald/Raynor, Ross, or even Flynn!

[Mike_Sweeney]

It is actually surprising that Tillie did not spend more time in Newport, which has/had the largest number of bars per capita of any US city. Take Tom Paul's theory that alchohol and golf architecture do mix well, then combine Tillie's talents of partying and golf architecture with Newport's seaside location and gin mills, and people here would be saying National who? Cypress what ?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Does one feel SFGC should be discussed here? It was somewhat treeless when built, within a mile of the sea on sand dunes or sand hills.

[Kye_Goalby]

There is a Tillinghast NLE in Jamestown RI, which is on an island in the mouth of the Narragansett (sp?) Bay.  It was definitely  an ocean front course.  right on the cliffs of the island.  There was a group trying to rebuild it , a few holes had become houses, but many were still there- just overgrown in brush and trees.  There were some really cool holes and views, but I dont think we will ever see it  as a golf course again as environmental restrictions stopped the process from what I am aware of.

[GeoffreyC]

Tillinghast was a genious. He would have produced brilliant designs if given seaside property.

In addition to Newport, one needs only to look at what he did along the water at Rockaway Hunting Club.  The 9th hole is absolutely world class (see book of golf courses of the MGA for a photo) while the drive on #7 is among the best.  The cape green on #8 is pretty special as well.

[SPDB]

Geoffrey -
I knew I took a risk in not remembering some of the courses. How could I have forgotten RHC? I agree with you about the quality of the holes on the lagoon.

Interestingly, both of these courses were redesigns. What if anything (e.g. routing, specific holes) were retained from the original courses?

[GeoffreyC]

Sean

That's a good question.  I don't know what the Dev Emmet routing was for RHC.  Maybe Chip can fill us in on that. The MGA book talks about #9 as a Tillinghast hole.