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David_Tepper

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Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« on: April 28, 2015, 03:47:49 PM »
For those who may not be aware, the PGA matchplay event at Harding Park this week will use a routing different from how the course plays for the rest of the year. It is similar to the routing that was used in the Presidents Cup several years ago. The adjusted routing pushes holes 14-18 (probably the best holes on the course) into the first half of the back nine.

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/04/theres-a-method-behind-the-mad.html
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 03:51:58 PM by David_Tepper »
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 08:58:12 AM »
I attended the President's Cup.  As I recall this was not the routing that was used.  The 18th played as the 18th.
However I tend to agree with this week's routing for the purposes of match play.
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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

David_Tepper

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 09:11:13 AM »
Lynn -

Your memory is mistaken. What is usually the 9th hole played as #18 in the President's Cup and is playing as #18 this week. You may be thinking of the American Express strokeplay event that was also held several years back at Harding, where the normal routing was used.

DT
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 02:17:55 PM »
Can we agree on this?  The usual 18th is the dog leg left where the tee shot is struck across water?
Can we agree on this?  The usual 16th is a short par 4 of 336 yards?

If so can we agree that I watched Steve Stricker matched against Geoff Ogilvy in the President's Cup?  On the 16th which is one of the better match play holes, Stricker laid laid up with the drive and hit wedge in close.  Ogilvy struck driver onto the green.  Ogilvy two putted for 3, Stricker made his putt to halve.  I watched it.  It was 2009.  Ogilvy won 2 and 1.

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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Andy Stamm

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 03:10:37 PM »
Quote from: Lynn_Shackelford on April 30, 2015, 02:17:55 PM
Can we agree on this?  The usual 18th is the dog leg left where the tee shot is struck across water?
Can we agree on this?  The usual 16th is a short par 4 of 336 yards?

If so can we agree that I watched Steve Stricker matched against Geoff Ogilvy in the President's Cup?  On the 16th which is one of the better match play holes, Stricker laid laid up with the drive and hit wedge in close.  Ogilvy struck driver onto the green.  Ogilvy two putted for 3, Stricker made his putt to halve.  I watched it.  It was 2009.  Ogilvy won 2 and 1.



That is all true. That hole was playing as the 13th. The cape hole was 15. The usual 1, 7, and 9 holes were played as 16, 17, and 18.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 05:30:49 PM by Andy Stamm »
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Mark Provenzano

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 03:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Andy Stamm on April 30, 2015, 03:10:37 PM
Quote from: Lynn_Shackelford on April 30, 2015, 02:17:55 PM
Can we agree on this?  The usual 18th is the dog leg left where the tee shot is struck across water?
Can we agree on this?  The usual 16th is a short par 4 of 336 yards?

If so can we agree that I watched Steve Stricker matched against Geoff Ogilvy in the President's Cup?  On the 16th which is one of the better match play holes, Stricker laid laid up with the drive and hit wedge in close.  Ogilvy struck driver onto the green.  Ogilvy two putted for 3, Stricker made his putt to halve.  I watched it.  It was 2009.  Ogilvy won 2 and 1.



That is all true. That hole was playing as the 13th. The cape hole was 15. The usual 1, ,8 and 9 holes were played as 16, 17, and 18.

This is how I remember it: http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2009-10/golf_harding_park_whitten_1005
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 04:31:25 PM »
I couldn't find a larger version of this map.

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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Bill_McBride

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 05:52:47 PM »
16 and 17 in this routing, 1 and 2 in the usual, could be the most blah back to back holes in golf.
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Andy Stamm

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 06:41:58 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 30, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
16 and 17 in this routing, 1 and 2 in the usual, could be the most blah back to back holes in golf.

Neither this week nor in the President's Cup are they playing the normal 1st and 2nd holes in succession.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 06:52:23 PM by Andy Stamm »
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 07:29:24 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 30, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
16 and 17 in this routing, 1 and 2 in the usual, could be the most blah back to back holes in golf.

17 in this routing is the normal 7th, isn't it?  It's a drivable par 4 for these guys....not blah in my book.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Greg Gilson

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 07:35:10 PM »
I just spent an hour in front of the TV with my coffee ....its Friday  morning down here, guys. Was it a quirk of my timing or did they not show anything of 14 (the actual 18) other than a few putts. Surely, if you are covering that course you'd have a couple of cameras+++  for the tee shot on that hole?
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David_Tepper

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 07:56:33 PM »
The routing for the current matchplay is slightly different than the one for the Presidents Cup.

The par-3 8th hole, which was the 11th hole in the President Cup, is now the 17th hole for the matchplay.
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Matthew Rose

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 08:12:35 PM »
Yes, I watched for a couple of hours and the only time I saw the 14th hole was for putting.

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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 08:58:24 PM »
Thanks everyone.  I stand corrected.  I suppose on a course which I don't think much of for match play, I give someone credit for laying it out in a fashion where the holes can be mixed and matched.  Flexible, but obviously confusing to me.
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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Bill_McBride

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2015, 09:46:25 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on April 30, 2015, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 30, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
16 and 17 in this routing, 1 and 2 in the usual, could be the most blah back to back holes in golf.

17 in this routing is the normal 7th, isn't it?  It's a drivable par 4 for these guys....not blah in my book.

Yes, I guess the 8th in this routing is usual #2.  Any disagreement that usual 1-2 are pretty blah?
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David_Tepper

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park New
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 10:08:11 PM »
Matthew P. & Greg G. -

60-90 minutes ago, Jordan Spieth's tee shot on #14 was shown from behind the tee, with the use of the shot tracker device. His opponent's drive was also show from behind the tee, without shot tracker. I don't know why that camera angle was not used more often. I do know there is very little room behind the 14th tee and the entry road to the golf course.

Lynn S. -

I seriously doubt Harding Park was routed some 90 years ago with the notion of it being flexible enough to be re-routed to be more suitable for a televised matchplay event in the 21st century. ;)

What is interesting about the routing at Harding is that the back-9 circles entirely around the front-9 (and also the Fleming 9-hole course). The only other courses I know of where one nine surrounds the other nine are Muirfield and Sonoma.

DT
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 11:56:03 PM by David_Tepper »
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Matchplay Routing At Harding Park
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 11:44:12 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 30, 2015, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on April 30, 2015, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on April 30, 2015, 05:52:47 PM
16 and 17 in this routing, 1 and 2 in the usual, could be the most blah back to back holes in golf.

17 in this routing is the normal 7th, isn't it?  It's a drivable par 4 for these guys....not blah in my book.

Yes, I guess the 8th in this routing is usual #2.  Any disagreement that usual 1-2 are pretty blah?

Yes, I agree with you about the 1-2 start.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson
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