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Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2015, 08:19:57 AM »

I'm Superintendent at a course that has used tarps in the past to success along with failure.  Most recently in 2010 we had winter damage on 4 greens.  Of those 4 green 3 of them were covered with tarps.  So to say tarps save you from winter damage is false.  Like Andrew Hardy stated, it's very dependent on what you do with the tarps.  The winter of 2009/2010 we had 2" of rain on Christmas Eve then a high of 11 degrees the next day.  That was then followed by 7" of snow which then melted a week later adding to the ice cover.  At 20 days of ice cover we made the decision to break the ice by using a vibratory tamper, this created a lot of large cracks allowing for oxygen in and gas out. 
Following that procedure all the ice melted and everything was exposed about a week later.  So, as we pulled covers and seen what we had to look forward to I naturally asked myself questions about our process.  The one question I didn't have to ask was whether or not the tarps were the savior or not as we had dead grass under the covers as well.

I believe a lot of success through winter is built through the season and especially in fall.  You must have healthy/vibrant turf going into winter especially with Poa greens.  Otherwise substandard health will only make it harder for that Poa to survive a tough winter.  For the most part ice is the main concern and water can still get through the tarps and create ice underneath.  This then sets you up for multiple freeze thaw cycles as the tarps warm thawing the ice but then freezing again and again, not good for the turf. 

In reality Mr. Mucci it is a "yes/no" decision to apply the tarps.  But you have to take all the other practices into account with that decision.  Tarps aren't the saving grace.  Just when we, Superintendents, think we have the cycle figured out, Mother Nature shows us we're wrong.  Case in point last winter/spring here in Chicago when a number of courses experienced damage.  Courses that tarped, courses that didn't, courses that removed snow/ice, courses that didn't.  There is no rhyme or reason, but the healthier your turf going into winter the better chance you have.  But is there a trend that we are trying to push our greens for performance later into the season?

My personal feeling about last year was people were fine until early to mid March.  Snow melt took place and removed a natural cover/protection from the turf only to be opened to record lows of the teens and single digits.  Turf had started to take up water and begin their processes when hit with these sudden freezes.  We took plugs from ice covered fairway spots at 30, 50, and 70 days from ice formation.  The 30 and 50 grew fine inside and looked promising while the 70 day one we took mid March had nothing, completely dead.

To end, we regrassed our greens and approaches in the fall of 2011 to A1/A4.  With the winter of 2013/2014 we had not a blink of damage due to ice, cold, or whatever it may be.  Turf type is where the answer sits, not covers.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2015, 09:58:03 AM »
The question I asked David Tepper is a critical question.

"What's the downside of using tarps in the winter months" ?  ?  ?

Pat - here is a link explaining Hazeltine's decision to stop covering their greens written by Chris Tritabaugh.  Given that they are hosting the Ryder Cup in 2016, a lot of thought and experimentation went into this decision:

http://hazeltinenational.com/turfgrass_post/winter-covers-why-we-will-not-be-using-them/


Andrew Hardy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2015, 10:21:29 AM »
Here's another case study for a golf course in Alberta. I believe from one of their employees Twitter feed that they had major ice damage last spring even with this process.

http://www2.gcsaa.org/gcm/2007/sept/feature3.asp


Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2015, 11:25:01 AM »
One of our reactions to the ice storm damage of 2013-14 is to increase the height of cut going into the autumn.

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2015, 11:41:28 AM »
One of our reactions to the ice storm damage of 2013-14 is to increase the height of cut going into the autumn.

Think a lot of clubs have moved that direction, which is very good.  Helps build carbohydrates for the plant to store going into winter and survive.  Think a lot are realizing more and more the importance of sunlight as well and are addressing trees too close to playing surfaces.  Photosynthesis is one of the most important physiological process for the plant and sunlight is needed for such.  Great job by your club by moving in the direction with raising mowing heights.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2015, 12:58:38 PM »
"What's the downside of using tarps in the winter months" ?  ?  ?

Pat M. -

Glad to see your question has been answered by those far more knowledgeable than I am.

DT

Andrew Hardy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2015, 05:18:07 PM »
One of our reactions to the ice storm damage of 2013-14 is to increase the height of cut going into the autumn.

Like my wife says "what goes out of fashion will always come back into fashion". We went into winter at .190" last fall and will try and get to .200" this year. This was a common practice when I got into golf 20 years ago. Now if I could just figure out how to stop my wife from buying shoes.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2015, 07:32:29 PM »
We had a another course GIVE us 18 tarps. We tarpped one green as a test. Everything about using the tarp was a pain in the ass. How soon do we tarp? When do we take the tarp off? How many employees are on hand when we tarp and remove the tarp? Did the tarp make the problem (green condition in spring) better or worse? Would we tarp all the greens? A handful of greens? Was there a better way to deal with our biggest winter problem (ICE)????? 

We never used the tarps after that one green, one winter experiment. We tossed the tarps out last summer.  Now, we use a combination of things to deal with ice. #1...we went to the board and got permission to remove some evergreen trees that shaded greens...#2...we use paints, greens grade Milorganite etc to help melt ice, raise soil temps..etc...#3...we remove snow and areate ice....#4...we install temp. drains to move water off the greens...and we keep our fingers crossed.

A long term solution for us would be new bent grass greens to replace our poa/bent greens...
Project 2025....All bow down to our new authoritarian government.

John Percival

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2015, 01:23:03 AM »
At OH, the greens on the South are tarped and the snow is removed. The course is shut down around Oct 31st. We are have the North for Fall play after and in the Spring before the South opens (weather dictated).
We had almost no issues last year and none this year on the South.

Yes, it is costly. But so is replacing greens or delaying play while greens recover after a rough winter.

Interestingly, it almost doesn't matter what Winter throws at us, as Steve Cook and his crew are magicians.

Chuck Barber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: To tarp or not to tarp ?
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2015, 06:36:25 AM »
As a superintendent in Chicagoland I have dealt with varying degrees of winter damage for two years in a row now.  The decision to tarp or not to tarp depends on what you're trying to accomplish.  If you want to roll the dice and hope Poa doesn't die, tarp.  In most winters it will probably thrive.  It then becomes a vicious cycle of superintendents trying to keep poa alive all winter and all summer because you are cultivating an annual plant.  Long-term, get rid of poa, manage for bentgrass.  It obviates the need for tarps altogether.  If you REALLY want to help the superintendent there are two bulletproof methods: drainage and SUNSHINE.  Where I have full sun I have no problems year over year.  Where I fight shade we have problems.  Superintendents do not suffer from mass delusion.  Shade kills grass, allows poa to dominate the stand and keeps the vicious cycle in place. 

The question is not to tarp or not to tarp.  The question is how much do you want to spend on chainsaws and debris management.