Old Corkscrew, Naples Area

[Jason Topp]

I think a good over/under bet will be total number of lost balls on the 5th hole, to my mind, a horrific hole. Water runs the entire left side of the hole, just 3 steps off the fairway and to the right is scrub vegetation, again, just 3 steps off the fairway. A fairway bunker cuts into the fairway at the landing area and the hole, from the blues, measures about 400 yards.

I liked number 5.  It is an easy bogey/hard par type of hole.  The fairway bunker is positioned exactly where one would otherwise bail out and there is a big advantage for squeezing it to the left or hitting it over (not in my arsenal).  The fairway is 50 yards wide short of the bunker and 25 yards wide where pinched so it is a pretty ample target.  Nonetheless, your lost ball over/under might be about right.

[Bryan Izatt]

Robert,

Like most south FL courses that overseed, they water the hell out of them.  At OC, it's both good and bad.  The course plays longer but the ball doesn't bounce off into the palmettos so much.  The low qualifying score was 68 even with lift clean and place which tells you something about the difficulty.

David,

The 5th isn't so bad, at least the water is left while most people slice.  Just lay up to the right bunker and leave a long second.  The fairway is relatively generous. 

I find the short par 4's worse.  There seems to be nowhere to drive it on 4 with water left and the dreaded palmettos right and bunkers up the middle.  I'd bet more balls are lost there than the 5th.  The short par 4 13th with jungle on both sides is another one where there is probably a high lost ball count.

[Bryan Izatt]

In heavy winds most courses are much tougher, even for the pros.  This course is probably worse than most because recovery from off the fairways is often not possible and it's hard to hit fairways anywhere in heavy winds.

You have to admit that the 4th is a conundrum to play for a short par 4.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Well ten guys played today. Caps between 5 and 13

Lost balls 18
Average score 86

I believe Jack was on drugs.

Three putted five greens and that was our best.

No return at six bucks a beer

[Bryan Izatt]

1.8 lost balls per player probably beats the average.   

Where did you lose the balls - water or palmettos? 

Was there consensus amongst the 10 players not to return?  Where's the desire to compete and beat the course?   

Which tees did you play?

[J_ Crisham]

Ed/Bryan/David ,    In contrast to Old Corkscrew, I played Yeamans today and had a thoroughly enjoyable day. Would rather not play than get beaten up at OC. No lost balls, water but not really in play. All the Classic Raynor holes-back at it in the AM. Long weekends at YH is what golf should be, great golf , lodging, food , architecture, and camaraderie !

[Ed Brzezowski]

Ok boys here we go

Winds  at 10 to 15 at most, beautiful day until you tee off .

Two balls lost in LWH, the rest were a good a good ten feet off the fairway. Greens are insane, saw a shot from eighty yards back up and run forty feet into a bunker.

I love a good challenge , this was not. Greens are insane. Ten footer with ten feet of break??

Conditions great but I will spend my two hundred bucks elsewhere. Nuke the greens please

[Anthony_Nysse]

Robert,

Like most south FL courses that overseed, they water the hell out of them.  At OC, it's both good and bad.  The course plays longer but the ball doesn't bounce off into the palmettos so much.  The low qualifying score was 68 even with lift clean and place which tells you something about the difficulty.

Brian,
  I have not read this thread in it's entirety, but what gives you the impression that they overseed? OC uses Celebration bermudagrass which we have on our fairways. Its a darker green, stripes up well and is used everywhere but on putting greens. There are VERY few courses that overseed south of Orlando anymore and certainly the uses of Celebration would make sure that's nearly impossible.

[Bryan Izatt]

Anthony,

It was speculation on my part.  I could be wrong.  What was clear was that it was well watered.  If they (or you) don't overseed anymore, do you water more or less heavily or the same in winter?  Is Celebration ever dormant or semi-dormant?  I play a number of rounds in the Naples/Fort Myers area in early January and mud balls and very little roll is fairly common to all the course I play.  This year the weather was fairly sunny and dry and warmer than normal.

[Ed Brzezowski]

The course was very well watered. Some drives got very little roll.

Most balls were lost ten to fifteen feet off the fairways. Any ball that hit close to the woods/ palmetto was gone. I thought the greens were a mess. I believe over half were " heavily contoured "

Played the colony today, half the price and twice the enjoyment.

Ed

[Bryan Izatt]

Ed,

How much of your distaste for the course was dictated by the price?  I assume you paid the rack rate of $179 (and I think that price is ridiculous).  If you paid half that much would you have enjoyed it more.  I've never paid more than $80.  It makes it more palatable.  And, I enjoy the challenge at that price.

[Will Peterson]

After reading the beginning of this thread, I was not sure what to expect when I arrived at Old Corkscrew on Friday.  I was also very nervous for my playing partners who were joining me from the frigid north.

Although the course is difficult, it is by no means as impossible as many have made it out.  If you play the appropriate tees, it should not be the bloodbath described.  The hazards and palmettos are close to the fairways in spots, but the fairways are large and provided plenty of area to land.  I didn't think the palmettos or scrub are any closer to play than most courses cut from swamps.  The greens are enormous and most holes also have bail out areas.  This could leave challenging shots, but balls shouldn't be lost near greens on most holes.  There are massive undulations in the greens, but at the current speed they were fine to putt.  If they got the greens much faster than about a 10-10.5 things could get ridiculous.  I would have liked to see the greens firmer and more consistent, but at their current pace, they were fun.  You found yourself with crazy putts and chips to tiers, up and over humps, and down into valleys.  They would not be fun for tournament play.

Is it my favorite course, no, but I've played much worse, and many that were more unfairly tough or ticked up for difficulty.  There is a lot of trouble out there, but there is also a lot of room.

Our threesome had a 76 (0 lost balls) from the tips, 88 (4 lost balls) from the whites by a 12, and a 115 (basically her average score with 1 lost ball) from the forwards.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Bryan, even at a half the price I would have questioned the greens. So price had nothing to do with it. It"s the crazy season down there and we choose to attend so that is on us. I just was disappointed at the severity of the greens. Two fairly well played shots should give you reasonable shot at making a four. With some of the pin placements , wind and speed you tried to keep the ball on the green let alone thinking of a par.

Will, we are all fair golfers and played from about 6200. Yes some of our problems were the windspeeds last Thursday , Friday was a better day with lower speeds. If you take a good look some of the fairways, while wide, dont give you alot of options in a heavy cross wind. The greens , imho, are nuts. I took alot of crap a while ago for liking the greens on the Castle Course ( Old Melvyn had a stroke) but I think these greens left you less options than the Castle. Plus the Castle gave you a great yardage book and made sure you knew the severity of the levels, this course did not.

[Mark Saltzman]

Ed, do the wild greens inspire creativity?  Even if they are a real challenge on the approach, they must leave some interesting recoveries around the green, no?

Andy, you may have said this earlier, but how similar are the greens at OC to the greens at The Concession?  I wonder how similar they are to Dismal before the changes.

It sounds like OC would benefit from the same brush / palmetto removal they underwent at The Concession.

[Ed Brzezowski]

You know Mark that is a great question. I did find myself attempting shots I had not hit in years. I enjoyed it but had a hard time taking the course seriously. My playing companions had some issues so I could  play around and try the backboards and goofy putts. I found some new ways to spin a sand shot sideways. Putting away, way away, from the hole was interesting.

We all did come to the same conclusion however, once was nice, maybe twice but not a steady diet. For what it is worth I thought the Colony was a better track. Great finishing hole, sun setting and our friends there to meet us with an adult beverage. I am sure someone will disagree but just a nice course.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Anthony,

It was speculation on my part.  I could be wrong.  What was clear was that it was well watered.  If they (or you) don't overseed anymore, do you water more or less heavily or the same in winter?  Is Celebration ever dormant or semi-dormant?  I play a number of rounds in the Naples/Fort Myers area in early January and mud balls and very little roll is fairly common to all the course I play.  This year the weather was fairly sunny and dry and warmer than normal.

Brian,
  I do not know the specific, but I do thought the west side of the state has had a little more moisture then we have. Celebration will go dormant, like any bermudagrass, but it's a little more cold tolerant. I do not know their soils or budget numbers, but the use of wetting agents and spot watering has helped us stay firm. Our members and guest routinely see 25-35 yards of roll from their shot, but they are also more concerned about playability, not aesthetics.  Celebration can also be little more of a "sticky" grass.

[Andy Troeger]

Ed, do the wild greens inspire creativity?  Even if they are a real challenge on the approach, they must leave some interesting recoveries around the green, no?

Andy, you may have said this earlier, but how similar are the greens at OC to the greens at The Concession?  I wonder how similar they are to Dismal before the changes.

It sounds like OC would benefit from the same brush / palmetto removal they underwent at The Concession.

Similar to The Concession from memory. I have a hard time disagreeing that they are over the top. Nicklaus went through a phase there for awhile where every course had to be as difficult as possible.

[Rick Shefchik]

I played Old Corkscrew last week with my wife and a 30-handicap friend who plays about once a week in the summer. We had a terrific time and would definitely go back. Reading this thread in advance, I was concerned that my winter-rusty game wouldn't survive the ordeal, so I played from the 6,222 tees. I shot well over my handicap and lost four balls -- two on the par-4 9th due to a risky attempt to carry the water guarding the green from a poor lie, and two on the par-5 15th when I sort of went brain-dead and didn't aim far enough left on a long hole with water down the right side. Otherwise, I thought it was fairly easy to keep your ball in play, with a little caution and playing from the proper tees.

The greens putted truly and were a bit quick, but nothing over the top. Only one green seemed too severe: the par-4 14th, where the hole location was on a narrow nose in front that fell off steeply short, left and right. The bunkers were well-placed but you always knew what kind of a shot was required to clear them or avoid them; the approach shots did not all demand high, soft fades like those Nicklaus designed at Dove Mountain. There are seven greens that jut out into water, requiring some prudence, but surprisingly, a majority of those were on dogleg left holes, rather than the dogleg rights that Nicklaus supposedly favors.

I wanted to post this for those looking for a high-end public in the Fort Myers/Bonita area but might have been intimidated by the previous reviews on this thread. I'm looking forward to playing the course again some day.    

[Ken Fry]

Along the same lines of Rick's post, I played Old Corkscrew this past week and wanted to pass on my impressions for those doing a search and looking for somewhere to play in Naples/Ft. Myers area.

Keep in mind, public options are limited and most private clubs have really clamped down on guest play.

Old Corkscrew is difficult but I found it to be fun.  There's certainly more interest at OC than many of the private courses I've played here.  Are the greens over the top?  Not at all.  There's quite a bit of movement in most greens but they are much more tame than those built at Harbor Shores.  What surprised me was the demand off most tees.  There's the option of laying back from trouble off the tee but that may leave a very long approach.  The aggressive lines off the tees is very demanding and narrow.  Pull the shot off, get rewarded.  Get off line and it may be a lost ball.  Palmetto bushes are prevelant but many areas are cleared out to find and play a ball that may go a bit off line.

Will you shoot over your handicap?  Most likely, but how often can you play golf in Naples/Ft. Myers with no homes lining the fairways or major highways roaring by?  Old Corkscrew is certainly worth a stop.

Ken

[Stu Grant]

I've played Old Corkscrew two years in a row on trips to Florida, and hope to return again next year.  It's got a high slope (146) from the 6,600 blue tees, but I think much of the difficulty comes from the challenging green complexes, which personally I think is fun. While there is still some lost ball potential on the course, I think OC offers plenty of outs for the player who isn't trying to take the aggressive line all of the time. It's tough, but enjoyable. 

Unrelated to the golf course: If you play OC, you should make a plan to eat lunch here too; the food is fantastic and reasonably priced.

[Jason Way]

In an effort to experience some JN architecture, I drove across alligator alley and played it in March.  Enjoyed it.  The course is interesting enough to be fun, and it is on a cool piece of property.  I joined a threesome and played with them from the regular tees.  Wish that I had played from one set further back as I kept hitting it too far into trouble, but that is not an architectural flaw.  I just didn't feel like hitting 3-wood all day.

If I was in that area, I would play it again.  It wasn't interesting enough to me to go out of my way though.  Solid fun - nothing special.