The Foulis Brothers; Founding Fathers of Midwest G

[RJ_Daley]

Jim, I suppose it was too much to hope for that some document of Foulis brothers or Bende's would have made mention of the others design style or discussed their actual ideas about how they went about laying out and constructing their courses.  I heard that Ron Whitten had discovered documents in a Chicago basement that belonged to Langford.  Perhaps they contain some evidence of idea exchanges between him and Foulis brothers.  From what I have seen, Langford was very influence by the Seth Raynor-Banks design/construction styles as evidenced by Lawsonia compared to the typical theme holes of that Raynor school of design.  But, Bendelow and Foulis brothers seem to be more sympathetic to eachother's styles.  Do you think that is possible?

[jimhealey24]

RJ;

The only mention Robert ever mentions is what he learned from Old Tom at St. Andrews.  He spoke about that on several occasions.  Bendelow was a competitor, and he wasn't staying in Chicago.  That was probably enough for Robert not to mention too much about him.  Jim and Dave had to deal with him in the WIndy City.  There are no records of much contact between them and from what I can find, the Foulis' didn't do much in the area of writing down their plans, diagrams, etc for us to follow.  Bendelow did a little more, for example, I do have a routing of Westborough in 1908, but it is quite rough.  I also have a hand drawing of Glen Echo in 1901 that primarily gives just the general hole design.  The 1904 drawing used for the Olympic Matches is far better.

Not much remains of the Foulis' work on paper, just the finished products!

Jim

[Art_Schaupeter]

Buck,

Forest Hills is going well.  Mostly an irrigation renovation and stormwater improvements.  Additionally we reworked some of the tee complexes and replaced the entire cart path on the back nine.  The front nine holes were worked on last year.

I agree with your assessment of holes 9, 18 and 4.  As for the fairway bunkers, the only one I can remember is the one (or two?) between holes 7 and 15, catching the hook off of 7 and the slice away from OB on 15.

Art

[hollandr]

Jim  Thanks for the Foulis article.

[Steve Pozaric]

This has been a great thread about some of the courses in town.  I am (somewhat) sad Forest Park is torn up (I am interested to see how its replacement turns out) and am excited that the Walters folks are going to manage Normandie this year.  Fun layout, but conditioning has historically been awlful.  

Steve P

[jimhealey24]

SteveP

I wouldn't be too enthused about Walters taking over Normandie; the Emerson family - they own the land - has to be willing to make an investment in the course - something they have not been willing to do since 1985, when it went public.  Walters would be foolish to invest unless they have a long-term  agreement with them; something that must be substantially less dollars than Eagle golf was paying, otherwise they won't make any money either.  I'll give you an example.  If they spend 400k on maintenance during the year,  generate 800k in revenue and spend 350k on the lease they only net 50k, and that won't cover the staffing required!  In reality, they would spend more than 400k to bring it up  to  shape!

Regarding Forest  Park - or FOPO as I belovedly refer to it - it was never a Foulis design. It was designed by committee, headed by Dwight Davis.  Robert Foulis did build it, so it did have a lot of his signature on it.  But if you look at it as compared to Glen Echo or Normandie or Sunset or Ruth Parketc., you won't find as many similarities as you might think as it went through numerous changes over the years with little effort to retaining the original look and feel.

The new FOPO, with zoysia fairways and new featues, doesn't  pretend to be an updated version of the old course.   It is a new  course with traditional  features found in older courses, but with new maintenance built in.  Should allow for greater playability, easier maintenance and less stress on the course, given that the 27 holes have seen as much as 100,000+ rounds per year!

JH

[Buck Wolter]

Steve-
I have heard good things about the guy from Walter's heading up the operations there -- came from Gateway. The word I got was that conditioning will improve and hopefully Walter's will put an occasional marshall out there as that place can be the home of the 5 hour round. I will miss the old geyser (sp?) who worked behind the counter and would let me go play 1 and 9 on my way home from work. Hopefully they'll also upgrade the range (read pick balls occasionally so you can hit them), the central area of town is in desperate need of a range.

I played the new 9 at Fo Pa a couple weeks ago. For a dead flat piece of ground they worked in some pretty good holes with a ton of sand. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the pace of play. While obviously unimportant to GCA they have a first rate club  house facility now with Pilsner Urquel, Fat Tire, Boulevard and Schafly all on tap -- I may have to start jogging there! MBL said there's a good plan of the whole renovation on the wall in the clubhouse as well.

We should try to get a St. Louis outing together this Spring and perhaps play Normandie. MBL and I have been trying to get a round in with Art S. -- it'd be fun to play a round at a course Art's been involved with if he has some time as well.

Buck

[IllinoisRob]

Thanks Jim for this wonderful article! -Rob

[jimhealey24]

Trying to determine when Jim Foulis went to Olympia Fields.  Know he went there sometime between 1915 and 1921.  Any help out there?

[Buck Wolter]

Jim-
Just got my Links magazine, great article! Also recently found 'Golfing Before the Arch' and can't wait to dig in.

Buck

[Dave_Ward]

Jim Foulis was hired at Olympia Fields on March 7 1917 as Pro/greenkeeper.  He lived on property and his wife was a cook/baker in the early clubhouse.  Mrs. Foulis pies were in hot demand.  Foulis would have crossed paths with Bendelow here as Bendelow designed course #1, and had a hand in the design of courses #2, and #3.  Tom Kennet replaced Jim, as Pro in 1919 and Fred Kruger (construction forman for Carter's Tested Seeds, the company hired to build the #4 Course) replaced him as greenkeeper in 1922.

[SL_Solow]

Dave Ward;
                Good to see you leaving the lurkers realm.  I look forward to your comments and I hope to see you soon.

[albob14]

This is an excellent article. I am the granddaughter of Simpson J. Foulis and it is really nice to read all this information about my family.

Alison Stoike

[Doug Wright]

Alison,

Welcome to GCA. If you have some things to add about your family, who were scions of golf architecture in the US, we'd love to hear about them.

All The Best,

[Roberta]

It was so wonderful to read all the messages with the name Foulis in them!
I am the daughter of Simpson Foulis. He was the only one of the brothers who was not a professional golfer, yet my mom always said that he was regarded as the best player of them all.
I look forward to reading more about my family.

Roberta Foulis Stoike

[jimhealey24]

Dave Ward:

Great story on Jim Foulis' family.  Where did you find this info???  

I was at Olympia Fields last week and had a chance to speak with Brian Morrison, the DOG, and turns out he is from St. Louis.  We had a great time discussing the "do you knows" from the past.

Roberta Foulis Stoike:

Great to hear from you as well.

Jim Healey

[Dave_Ward]

The info on Jim Foulis at OFCC comes from early additions of the Club magazine, THE OLYMPIAN, and early Club Board minutes.  With the Open coming, the club has been trying to gather historical artifacts, photos, and data.  We don't have a whole lot on Foulis or Bendelow other than histories writen by members in the 30's, based on personal memories.

[Steve Pozaric]

Jim:

Was that you on KFNS this morning?  I just caught the end of it and thought I heard your name.  If so, sorry I missed it.  If not, my mistake.

Steve Poz