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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2014, 02:17:22 PM »
Please leave Facebook arguments to Facebook. Those of us who choose to not be part of that society deserve our freedom from it.

Sam Morrow

Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2014, 02:21:35 PM »
Please leave Facebook arguments to Facebook. Those of us who choose to not be part of that society deserve our freedom from it.

Amen

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2014, 02:30:18 PM »
JK,

I only mentioned the source to be open.  The five questions here and two others on separate threads seemed worthy of discussing on their own merit.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2014, 03:26:17 PM »
Like others, I have always appreciated Melvyn and his perspective, precisely because it flies in the face of prevailing/conventional wisdom. His is an important point of view - a sole Scottish Socratic Gadfly challenging the Great Ran City-State of GCA.COM.

That said, I think he fails to make a fundamental distinction, i.e. that between the game as game and the game as experience. We all know how golf as a game came to be: walkers walking windswept linksland with only their eyes to guide them and with the goal of steering clear of vast blown-out hazards using implements uniquely ill-suited to the task. Yes, that's the game of golf, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, worlds wthout end.

But the experience of golf -- which of course is better termed the experience of golfers -- is, and must be, and will be despite all the protestations of the old prophets of purity, as varied and changing and fickle and ego-fuelled as the millions upon millions of golfers past and present are in themselves, fallen creatures in a fallen world who want and insist that the game serve them and not that they serve the game.

We are a stubborn people, modern-day golfers, and soft around the middles and pudgy, wobbly legged from all our sedentary office duties and shaky of hand from the liquor we insist on downing before, during and after our rounds; and Melvyn is the stern ascetic, a sole voice crying out in the wilderness for us to repent -- but alas, we are in the main heedless of this man (not in animal skins, surely, or eating locusts and honey -- I hope in a nice tweed jacket and comfortable corduroy pants)  who thunders loudly on behalf of the game as game.

Peter


And so ends 2014!!  Not with a whimper but bang!  Melvyn returns from the grave an PP writes a cracker of description of this most wondrous occasion!

Happy New Year everyone,

Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2014, 03:47:30 PM »
Please leave Facebook arguments to Facebook. Those of us who choose to not be part of that society deserve our freedom from it.

Lighten up, Francis.

If this be an argument, it is the mildest of arguments. If it be a debate, it is a debate most friendly.

Melvyn always needed a PR person out front, and Jeff seems to be the perfect guy.

I'm in your corner, Jeff (and that doesn't mean I'm not in John K.'s at other times, if he'll have me.)
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2014, 05:11:33 PM »
Like others, I have always appreciated Melvyn and his perspective, precisely because it flies in the face of prevailing/conventional wisdom. His is an important point of view - a sole Scottish Socratic Gadfly challenging the Great Ran City-State of GCA.COM.

That said, I think he fails to make a fundamental distinction, i.e. that between the game as game and the game as experience. We all know how golf as a game came to be: walkers walking windswept linksland with only their eyes to guide them and with the goal of steering clear of vast blown-out hazards using implements uniquely ill-suited to the task. Yes, that's the game of golf, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, worlds wthout end.

But the experience of golf -- which of course is better termed the experience of golfers -- is, and must be, and will be despite all the protestations of the old prophets of purity, as varied and changing and fickle and ego-fuelled as the millions upon millions of golfers past and present are in themselves, fallen creatures in a fallen world who want and insist that the game serve them and not that they serve the game.

We are a stubborn people, modern-day golfers, and soft around the middles and pudgy, wobbly legged from all our sedentary office duties and shaky of hand from the liquor we insist on downing before, during and after our rounds; and Melvyn is the stern ascetic, a sole voice crying out in the wilderness for us to repent -- but alas, we are in the main heedless of this man (not in animal skins, surely, or eating locusts and honey -- I hope in a nice tweed jacket and comfortable corduroy pants)  who thunders loudly on behalf of the game as game.

Peter


And so ends 2014!!  Not with a whimper but bang!  Melvyn returns from the grave an PP writes a cracker of description of this most wondrous occasion!

Happy New Year everyone,

Colin

Bingo.

Come back, Sam. Nothing wrong being a particular pure lone voice. No point though when no one can hear you.

And happy new year all.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 06:12:27 PM »
Please leave Facebook arguments to Facebook. Those of us who choose to not be part of that society deserve our freedom from it.

Amen

 ;D ;D ;D

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2014, 06:43:47 PM »
Frankly, I brought none of whatever argument we had on Facebook here.  I brought some legit discussion points.

Not sure what the connection is, especially from JK who has posted his share of contentious crap over the years.  Kettle, meet black.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2014, 07:23:17 PM »
Disagree with Schmidt on range finders. Not talking so much about guys like us, who whack and walk (when able) but the ids who play slowly in tournaments, now play less slowly, thanks to the radar guns.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2014, 08:10:05 PM »
I see no comment on the curse of slow play ...... yet.
Clearly another form of the plague that is modern golf.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2014, 09:12:01 PM »
I agree with many of his principles and ideas (not all, particularly the range finder issue which I think speeds up play) ...

Brian:  range finders speed up play about as much as women digging their wallets out of their purses at the checkout counter so they can swipe their credit cards for every silly little $2.63 purchase speeds up the line at Walgreens.    

Would you prefer that we walk off each yardage?

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »
How about just eyeballing it?

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 09:27:07 PM »
.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 08:51:50 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2014, 09:34:32 PM »
How about just eyeballing it?

Sure, but what about tournament golf?

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2014, 10:07:51 PM »
Trust your instincts brother!

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 10:30:29 PM »
Melvyn has started so many arguments his name
should be Merion Hunter Morrow

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2014, 10:48:34 PM »
I agree with many of his principles and ideas (not all, particularly the range finder issue which I think speeds up play) ...

Brian:  range finders speed up play about as much as women digging their wallets out of their purses at the checkout counter so they can swipe their credit cards for every silly little $2.63 purchase speeds up the line at Walgreens.    

Range finders do NOT slow up play. Slow players do. I play fast, and I am always ready to hit when it is my turn. I'll take just as much time with the rangefinder as I would eyeballing it... And since I usually have a caddy who has a rangefinder, he has the distance before I even get to the ball Put a rangefinder in a slow player's hand, and he'll be slow. But he'd be just a slow pacing it off.

Joe Sponcia

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's Left to Discuss - Best Melvyn Morrow Questions
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2014, 12:04:06 PM »
"If golf wasn't so expensive or difficult the courses would be so crowded that no one would play."  - John Kavanaugh

John,

Golfnow.com has eliminated the 'expensive' argument.  Former $50-60 courses are now $17 if you pick your spot in my neck of the woods. 


Joe


"If the hole is well designed, a fairway can't be too wide".

- Mike Nuzzo