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Patrick_Mucci

Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« on: January 16, 2016, 08:25:45 PM »
A copy of # 8 at Quaker Ridge ?
 
 
The best courses feature the most interesting playing angles. Though the one-of-a-kind 2nd hole at Cabot Cliffs features a straight playing corridor, a greenside volcano bunker that rises well above the putting surface creates a number of blind approach shots should the tee ball not be placed in the proper portion of the 100 plus yard wide fairway.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:27:34 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 11:22:28 PM »
How far is it over the bunker/hazard?

jeffwarne

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 11:48:06 PM »
Setting aside the ocean views, but simply looking at the topography of the hole, it makes me sad to think how many courses have been built where that feature would have been bulldozed and grassed for "fairness" and visibility.
Such a clever,simple, innovative, doubt creating use of a common and simple land form-that many would homogonize to mediocrity.


8 at QR is uphill though.
Resemblance? sure, though that area is a lot scarier looking than the pimple at QR(unless it's changed)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2016, 03:17:26 PM »
Doesn't the Doak course at Dismal River have a similar feature on the back nine. 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2016, 03:49:34 PM »
Jeff,


I agree, that raised pimple/mound would be bulldozed in many situations.


I've always liked centerline bunkers, especially when the most advantageous side of the fairway is the narrower of the two.


The raised pimple provides a unique additional dimension, blindness and/or partial blindness, so the challenge isn't restricted to the tee shot.


Having never played Cabot Clffs, what's the 2nd green like ?


Does it favor an approach from a particular angle/location ?

Mike Policano

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 08:15:00 PM »
Pat,


The second at Cabot Cliffs is an epic hole. It is actually jaw dropping in its scale and presentation.


The width of the fairway can't be captured in a picture. The width of the green and its depth is fits the hole very well. 


Personally, I think it is the best hole on the course although I am sure others will be able to debate that.


As for the best approach, it all depends on the hole location like any and all great holes.


Cheers, Mike




Steve Lapper

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 08:29:25 PM »
I can't do better than Mike's previous post to describe CC's #2.


Having played well over 200+ lifetime rounds at QR...and 3 at Cabot Cliffs, there is ZERO chance CC#2 is either a template or anything more than a distant relative of #8 at QR.


Pat, it's an absolutely ridiculous stretch to compare the two, or call it a template.


The "Abe Vigoda" (aka principal's nose) bunker-hazard at CC is hardly drivable (even by a Bubba Watson), whereas at QR it is undeniably a hazard off the tee. The size and scale of the feature at CC dwarfs everything else on the hole, whereas at QR it is slightly more than a centerline node.


The relative green sizes, shapes, and slopes are dramatically different as well. Pat, you need new glasses and a better memory.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 02:00:37 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 08:35:24 PM »
Steve Lappet,

As to the need for glasses perhaps you missed the title word "is".  ;D


Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 09:18:25 PM »
Follow up question - Is Quaker Ridge #8 a template?!

Ben Voelker

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 08:57:00 PM »
I've always liked centerline bunkers, especially when the most advantageous side of the fairway is the narrower of the two.


The raised pimple provides a unique additional dimension, blindness and/or partial blindness, so the challenge isn't restricted to the tee shot.


Having never played Cabot Clffs, what's the 2nd green like ?


Does it favor an approach from a particular angle/location ?


Pat,


I suspect pins will normally be placed on the right side of the green as the carry to the right half of the fairway is significantly longer (I would guess 200 yards versus 120 yards to the left fairway).  The tee ball is a bit downhill but I think the prevailing wind is directly into the hole as it was on my two plays.


The green really makes the hole though.  It has some pretty serious back to front slope and the two wings of the boomerang are false and balls that come up short will be in a collection area or lost.  As such, one tends to play a bit long which leads to a slippery little putt back down the hill.


Either way, it was one of my favorite holes on the course.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2016, 09:08:48 PM »
Is the green a horseshoe or boomerang similar to the green on the short par 4 at Streamsong?  #5 I think. 

Mark Fedeli

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 12:09:45 AM »
The features of this hole are massive and the elevation changes are dramatic. The picture doesn't come close to doing it justice.


It's a severe drop from the tee down to the fairway, with the green very well elevated. The green is in a V shape, but only the back 1/3 is really usable, or no more than the back half at most. The two wings slope steeply down and, interestingly, are kept mowed at green height almost all the way down to the ends. No ball will stop on them and, based on my few rounds there, any ball that rolled down was lost in the junk. The collection area was not enough to save them. In fact, as mentioned previously, any ball left above the hole was at a great risk of rolling all the way down no matter how carefully putted.


It was, without a doubt, the most controversial hole among the non-GCA interested members of my group. They all uniformly thought the green was unfair. The margin for error is non-existent, so I understand their concerns. It's a hole (specifically, a green site) unlike any other I've ever seen and I tried to convince them that the uniqueness alone should get it a pass from them, but no such luck.


As far as the center bunker, it's more of a volcano than a pimple. It's big and it's raised up quite high. Again, the picture really doesn't describe the dramatic slopes at play on that green.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Guy Nicholson

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2016, 08:15:17 PM »
Here's a panoramic photo showing the green and fringe mowing from a side angle. The tees are at top right, left of and in front of the small stand of trees on the escarpment. Click to see larger. (This was in June, before the first preview rounds, so I can't comment on playability.)


IMG_0730 by Guynick, on Flickr

Guy Nicholson

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Re: Is # 2 at Cabot Ciffs a template ?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2016, 08:18:38 PM »
And a tighter view from back at the tees.


DSC_0108 by Guynick, on Flickr

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