Bethpage Black

[David Davis]

I played the Black Course for the first time on Tuesday coincidentally. I have to admit it was way better than I had imagined after all I have heard and read here on GCA and in other places. A couple notable points, I chose to play from the white tees as I didn't feel up to 7400 yds. What was funny was to see how the other in the group I joined played the course. Two were about 10-12 hoper's and one was a 7 hcp. The 7 hcp insisted on playing from the tips. He wasn't a bad player and made 1 par, 1 bogey and 17 doubles or worst. After he maintained that he should of played those tees and had a blast. I saw that a little differently. I think this is the most common occurrence here. This guy didn't break 100.

I agree for the most part with Mark's comments. Why set up rough and mowing lines to protect bunker hazards? The course is hard enough, in fact I'd love to see it really opened up. Also to see the green complexes and surrounds mowed short so that balls don't stop in the rough right before running off the green or into bunkers. I won't soon understand the point of protecting a hazard with a hazard, I hardly imagine that was Tilly's intention.

One other notable was that I played in a wind opposite the prevailing wind and it was blowing about 35 mph. That meant a hole like 15 was playing straight down wind. Very manageable in this case. To put it into perspective I hit driver about 1 foot into the rough on the left and then 9 iron from 135 out just over the green (don't forget the high wind behind). Caught a bit of a flyer. Anything out of the rough I found tough all day long and the rough was probably about 1/4 as deep as it might be in an Open. The ball can really sit down making it in my case about a 7 or 8 iron or higher the only real play. You would have to get the ball further and back into the fairway or around the green.

For some reason I ended up hitting a lot of 6 irons into greens. I seemed to end up quite often with 150-170 meters left into greens. (par 4's) .

I would of loved to see the course before Reece Jones (I believe) made his alterations.

I guess in the end it was probably my 11th or 12th favorite course on my last trip but I still thought it was really good and had a great day out there. The round did take just under 5 hours and the walk was no problem at all in fact, what I'd call a nice walk. Sure the round was about 1.5 hours longer than any other round on the trip but it was expected so then it's fine.

[Jim Nugent]

I guess in the end it was probably my 11th or 12th favorite course on my last trip but I still thought it was really good and had a great day out there.

But weren't your ten favorites all top 50 or 60 on many world's best lists?  While I don't recall the exact courses you played, your post in the "last ten" thread would have made a damn fine lifetime top ten for most golfers.     

[Mark Fedeli]

I hit driver about 1 foot into the rough on the left and then 9 iron from 135 out just over the green (don't forget the high wind behind). Caught a bit of a flyer.

That's a good wind. #4 and #5 probably played downwind for you too, along with #7 and #10. How'd you do on #16 going back into it?

And just so everyone can see what I was referring to with the bunkers buried in the rough, here's the situation at #10 (below) and #11 (above):



A ton of rough between the fairway and left-side bunkers on #10. But even on #11, where the bunkers are supposed to really pinch into the fairway, they barely do because the fairway was already that narrow before and after.

[David Davis]

Mark,

All those holes played tough in my opinion. On 11 I was a little lucky. I hit driver a bit left, in the rough but had a decent lie. Then I hit a 2 hybrid quick a bullet and low into the left hand bunker just at the tip in front of the green. Pin position was middle so I had an easy sand shot that I didn't hit great and ended up 1.5 meters above the hole. One of the few putts I did make on the day so it was a par but felt honestly like a birdie given the conditions. 16 was rather brutal but I really screwed it up. I made double. Driver, 3 wood (not great) then shanked what was supposed to be a knock down little pitch from about 90 yes. You get the idea. It was playing tough and really required two very controlled long low spin shots or 3 accurate ones to reach. I will say that the course must of been easier in this wind given I had the feeling the wind was helping on so many holes or at least not hurting.

To your point about the bunkers, yes all of them were in the rough. I doubt Tilly intended that and it's really not necessary. Yes a maintenance issue but certainly rough is a hazard IMO.

[Mike Schott]

My experience on the Black Course was in the 1990's prior to any "renovation". The grass was in terrible shape except the greens but it was still a brute. What was obvious was the beautiful use of the property. The greens are so well sited. I don't recall many details except for playing reasonably well that day and playing 17 and 18 nearly in the dark. When I see the redesigned 18th hole, I wonder what Rees Jones was thinking. Tillinghast must be laughing in his grave at that travesty.

[Ronald Montesano]

Does anyone have an image of the original 18th?

[Brian Hilko]

Hey GCA,

I had the pleasure of playing Bethpage Black on Monday and here are my thoughts:

#1 Best actual Layout I have ever played.  Every single hole brought something to the table and I was incredibly impressed with its sheer size and power.   It seemed like no matter what club you hit you fall short of the pin because all of the greens are elevated and surrounded by bunkers.

The bunkering off the tee was very impressive... it really penalizes a bad shot and a major premium is put on driving the ball.

On #15 and #16 if you don't hit the fairway you simply cannot get to the green which really makes you sweat your tee shots.  You also leave the course simply exhausted because its a beast to walk due to the undulation.   

Anyways, I loved the course and it jumped into the #7 spot on my all time rankings which I have listed below.  

For those that have played it feel free to chime in.  

1.Turnberry (Ailsa)
2.Bandon Trails
3.St. Andrews (Old Course)
4.Bandon Dunes
5.Carnoustie
6.Pacific Dunes
7.Bethpage Black
8.Kingsley Club
9.Whistling Straights
10.Arcadia Bluffs
11.Spyglass Hill
12.Crystal Downs
13.Dunes Club
14.Kingsbarns
15.Cabo Del Sol Ocean
16.Milwaukee CC
17.Lost Dunes
18.Old Macdonald
19.Greywalls at Marquette
20.Prestwick
21.Golf Club of Scottsdale
22.St Andrews (Castle)
23.Silverleaf
24.Lawsonia Links
25.Four Seasons Punta Mita (Bahia)
26. Cabo Del Sol (Dessert)
27.Bay Harbor
28. Blackwolf Run (River)
29. Whistling Straights (Irish)
30.Glenview Club
31. Shore Acres
32.Quintero Ranch
33.Timberstone
34.Hawks Eye
35. Barton Creek (Canyons)
36. Cascata
37. Barton Creek (Foothills)
38. Erin Hills
39. Black Wolf Run (Meadow)
40. Desert Highlands
Honorable Mention: Skokie CC, Coyote Moon, Wild Rock, Eagle Ridge (General), Pilgrims Run, TPC Deere Run, Fyre Lake, Forest Dune

Skokie honorable mention?  Come on mike. I thought i straightened you out on our Michigan trip. You might be the only one in the treehouse who would play bay harbor over skokie

There are some real issues on this list. First of all timber stone and bay harbor are on the list. Arcadia over crystal, Milwaukee, and old Mac? If you value a strong test number one I would put these way ahead of Arcadia. Also they are very strong on your "scenery" test.

[Andy Shulman]

A good wind indeed!  The 15th and 16th were the last two of the seven par-4s that I had absolutely no chance of reaching in two (from the 6,600 yard white tees) no matter how well I ht my driver, which tops out at 225 yards or so.  As a result, par was only attainable for me on those holes by getting up and down from 50-100 yards out in the fairway, with the fairway ending on several of the holes well short of an elevated green.

Nonetheless, I thoroughly enjoyed playing the Black and could see shooting a good (for me) score there if my wedge game and putting are on.  The scale of the place is - if not quite awe inspiring - extremely impressive.  When you see the massive clubhouse sitting high atop a hill as you drive along Round Swamp Rd, you can't wait to get there, grab your clubs and give it a go.  The use of bunkering to challenge all levels of golfer on their selected line for the tee shots on #s 4,5 and 7 is superb.  It's very difficult, but not unfair.  Not a course most of us would want to play every day, but definitely one that'd be fun to play several times a year.

The Long Islanders I played with last month complained a bit about the $65 greens fee.  They don't know just how lucky they have it!

[Mike Treitler]

Hilko,

Great to hear from ya man. I know we tended to disagree on golf courses... If it makes you feel better I definitely take the links at Lawsonia over the woodlands now.

Loved Skokie when I first played, a top 10 for me. Played it again and just didn't come away with the same excitement.

As for crystal downs, I'm dying to get back there to see it again.  I often struggle with where to rank it because I played it on one cold day with you and kapugi but can't remember it that well.  I've been back to Kingsley twice.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The next time I play Black it will be from the Red tees. Play it forward for this senior mid-handicapper.