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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
"short and crafty", cracking phrase. I haven't played Cavendish but Tadmarton Heath and the Green course and Frilford Heath come to mind, usually firm and fast too, which is a nice bonus inland.

A point about health and safety on courses.

Not long ago I was playing and a ball from another tee landed right at my feet. The other player apologised and said he hadn't shouted "Fore" because he hadn't seen me because there were trees between him and me.

I've noticed this lack of a shout a few times on tree lined courses over the years. Maybe a barrier of trees doesn't necessarily help with safety, as in this instance if there'd been no trees I'd have been on the look out for him teeing off and he'd have seen me and shouted "Fore" and I'd have been alerted to an incoming ProV1. Just a thought.

atb


Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
To get back on topic, I just returned from two days of golf at Hunstanton.  It was my first time there, and I must regretfully give it space in my 10 Favo(u)rites, replacing Deal.

Why?

Similar sand based turf (in perfectly F&F conditioning), with similar mixtures of pure links and marshy bits.  Similar Royal Patrons (Randy Andy, in both places--not sure if he is or is not still persona grata at Deal...).  Similarly posh/friendly clubhouses, with similar century long competition champions board of significant public (ie. private, in Brit-speak) high schools.  But....

...much better views and local ambience.  A better test of golf.  Consisently subtle but never whacky greens.  Better effective width--mostly obvious space, always hit it short and straight options, more serious penalties if you really go for it and f**k up (both fairways and greensites).  More rough and ready.  Bottom line...

Not much different and both superb and nearly great (2** on the Richelin scale), but Hunstanton pips it for me, as per above.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ally

How many archies have been successfully sued for health and safety malpractice?  

My point was, even if a 110 acre site was availabe to build a stand alone course of 6000 yards, developers aren't interested, partly because of H&S and partly because of the risk involved.  Yet, the same golfers who developers target for their BIG course will happily play an old 6000 yard course. Meaning, marketing for BIG is so jacked up these days that small doesn't get a look in.

atb

I completely agree about trees and H&S...I want to see where otehr golfers are and what they are doing.  Unfortunately, the powers that be see trees as a safety barrier and on a small site, trees take up critical space necessary for playability.  

Rihc

Hunstanton has slowly worked its charms on me.  I don't think its in the class of Deal, but I think Hunstanton gives its near neighbour all it can handle for title of best course in Norfolk.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 05:52:12 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
I completely agree about trees and H&S...I want to see where otehr golfers are and what they are doing.  Unfortunately, the powers that be see trees as a safety barrier and on a small site, trees take up critical space necessary for playability. 
...and trees tend to be pretty greedy when it comes to grabbing water which I for one would rather see consumed by the grass.
atb

Brent Hutto

I agree completely with Brent's premise which I think should have read short and spread out is no better than long and tight... It's about flow and making the course feel in scale and consistent in size.... You can still build short courses in relatively small spaces without resorting to safety problems - in fact, that's the point...

I've edited my original comment to add in the missing "NOT". Good catch, thanks.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0

Rihc

Hunstanton has slowly worked its charms on me.  I don't think its in the class of Deal, but I think Hunstanton gives its near neighbour all it can handle for title of best course in Norfolk.  

We all know that you are hard to charm, Sean, but you will eventually see the light vis a vis Norfolk (and the rest of the UK, to be sure).

I wish you all the best in your quest for enlightenment.

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Brent Hutto

Here's the scorecard for a course with an interesting mix of five Par 3s, three Par 5's and only 6,000 yards (Par 70) from the visitors tee. Also, note that two of the Par 5's come fairly early in the round and three of the Par 3's are in the final eight holes which makes for "unbalanced" nines, something I like.



From the medal tees it is 6,400 and no doubt a real bruiser given the mostly tree-lined playing corridors and the up-and-down terrain.

For my game somewhere in the 6,000 yard range for firm-ish courses (and maybe a couple hundred yards less for those which tend to play soft) is a perfect distance for a round of golf. Having it as Par 70 would help me feel a little less puny than playing a Par 72 course that short (yes, I know that is vain and silly of me). The problem with some Par 70's is they are have too many similar length Par 4 holes (although a Par 4 longer than 375 yards is seldom a "two shotter" for me!).

Richard Phinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Good topic Sean

George's list is very bizzare, but it is his, and it made me think about top 10 links I would most prefer to play again, rather than my insignificant view as to which were the "best" 10 links GCA-wise or otherwise.  So, alphabetically....

Ballyliffin Old--not as good as when it was Ballyliffin Only, but what remains is still Eddie Hackett's masterpiece
Deal--the Elie of England
Dornoch--my "home" course since I first played it in 1978
Eden (St. Andrews)--most enjoyable course in St. Andrews, even with the Links Trust/Donald Steel butchery of what Colt built
Elie--in many ways the perfect links, and whilst posh, still very accessible
Kilspindie--the least "affected" of all the significant East Lothian clubs and courses and the greatest fun
Muirfield--so posh that it is the second least affected of the significant East Lothian links (and yes, it IS a links)
Mulranney--spent an hour walking it in 2008, still remains above Pine Valley on my "bucket list" of courses to play
Silloth--more remote than Dornoch but almost as enjoyable
Western Gailes--a nearly perfect blend of quality, simplicity and comfort

Rich



Great list, but as much as I loved Eddie Hacket, I think it's a stretch to attribute Ballyliffen Old to him.  My understanding is that it is a home made course by a couple of members and the greenskeeper.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Good topic Sean

George's list is very bizzare, but it is his, and it made me think about top 10 links I would most prefer to play again, rather than my insignificant view as to which were the "best" 10 links GCA-wise or otherwise.  So, alphabetically....

Ballyliffin Old--not as good as when it was Ballyliffin Only, but what remains is still Eddie Hackett's masterpiece
Deal--the Elie of England
Dornoch--my "home" course since I first played it in 1978
Eden (St. Andrews)--most enjoyable course in St. Andrews, even with the Links Trust/Donald Steel butchery of what Colt built
Elie--in many ways the perfect links, and whilst posh, still very accessible
Kilspindie--the least "affected" of all the significant East Lothian clubs and courses and the greatest fun
Muirfield--so posh that it is the second least affected of the significant East Lothian links (and yes, it IS a links)
Mulranney--spent an hour walking it in 2008, still remains above Pine Valley on my "bucket list" of courses to play
Silloth--more remote than Dornoch but almost as enjoyable
Western Gailes--a nearly perfect blend of quality, simplicity and comfort

Rich



Great list, but as much as I loved Eddie Hacket, I think it's a stretch to attribute Ballyliffen Old to him.  My understanding is that it is a home made course by a couple of members and the greenskeeper.

I think otherwise, Richard, based on previous research, published work and family connections in Ballyliffin, but I might have been misinformed.

Rich
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 02:13:08 PM by Rich Goodale »
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Richard Phinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Good topic Sean

George's list is very bizzare, but it is his, and it made me think about top 10 links I would most prefer to play again, rather than my insignificant view as to which were the "best" 10 links GCA-wise or otherwise.  So, alphabetically....

Ballyliffin Old--not as good as when it was Ballyliffin Only, but what remains is still Eddie Hackett's masterpiece
Deal--the Elie of England
Dornoch--my "home" course since I first played it in 1978
Eden (St. Andrews)--most enjoyable course in St. Andrews, even with the Links Trust/Donald Steel butchery of what Colt built
Elie--in many ways the perfect links, and whilst posh, still very accessible
Kilspindie--the least "affected" of all the significant East Lothian clubs and courses and the greatest fun
Muirfield--so posh that it is the second least affected of the significant East Lothian links (and yes, it IS a links)
Mulranney--spent an hour walking it in 2008, still remains above Pine Valley on my "bucket list" of courses to play
Silloth--more remote than Dornoch but almost as enjoyable
Western Gailes--a nearly perfect blend of quality, simplicity and comfort

Rich



Great list, but as much as I loved Eddie Hacket, I think it's a stretch to attribute Ballyliffen Old to him.  My understanding is that it is a home made course by a couple of members and the greenskeeper.

I think otherwise, Richard, based on previous research, published work and family connections in Ballyliffin, but I might have been misinformed.

Rich

I spoke to Marin Niland while researching  the 2nd edition of Links of Heaven.  I believe Eddie may have visited, but this is what Martin told me:

The links that Faldo fell in love with was ‘built’ for just £5838.  The club’s finely tuned budget called for an expenditure of £300 a hole, including £33 for each tee, £192 for each green, £50 for resodding and  £12 for levelling. Whether or not anyone had an idea to smooth out the fairways, there was certainly no money to do so.
‘Some Scottish guys were brought in at one stage to have a look,’ says Martin Niland, a member of the club at the time.  ‘But they were only a day and a half on site, and we were a bit dissatisfied with the time they spent and what they did. So we ended up doing it ourselves.’
   The Scottish visitors were from Frank Pennick’s design firm.  But when they departed it was left to Niland and fellow member Martin Hopkins to find a suitable routing on the massive property. 
‘We didn’t have proper drawings,’ says Niland.  ‘We just used stakes for the tees and the greens.’
   What Niland and Hopkins did have was a good grounding in agricultural science, and among the first thing they did was set up a nursery for the natural fescue grasses they would later lay on the green sites by hand.
   Over the years, finishing touches on what is now called the Old Links at Ballyliffen fell to the heroic greenskeeper Dennis Doherty.  He did everything on his own with only one piece of automated equipment (a single mower to cut the greens), though in the summer he was sometimes helped by a lad or two from government job-creation schemes.   




Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the clarification Richard and your favourite 10?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Richard Phinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the clarification Richard and your favourite 10?

Well, here is a quick  "downsized" top 10 following Sean's example...leaving out the championship stuff and stressing the fun. Old Port Salon might have made the list.  Not in order . 

Baltray
Cruden Bay
County Down
Nairn
Dornoch
Enniscrone
Sligo
Lahinch
Berwick
Montrose

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Love my links golf and fortunate to have travelled to play a number.

1.  Royal County Down
2.  St Andrews Old
3.  Lahinch
4.  Royal Portrush
5.  Barnbougle Dunes
6.  Ballybunion
7.  Royal Liverpool
8.  Royal Troon
9.  Paraparaumu Beach
10.Royal Cinque Ports

Some pretty good honourable mentions

Oreti Sands
 

Leo

I knew you would have Oreti in there somewhere  ;)

Royal County Down
Muirfield
Royal Dornoch
St. Andrews (Old)
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes
Royal St. George's
North Berwick (West)
Barnbougle Dunes
Paraparaumu Beach


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the clarification Richard and your favourite 10?

Well, here is a quick  "downsized" top 10 following Sean's example...leaving out the championship stuff and stressing the fun. Old Port Salon might have made the list.  Not in order . 

Baltray
Cruden Bay
County Down
Nairn
Dornoch
Enniscrone
Sligo
Lahinch
Berwick
Montrose

Richard

Talk to me about Montrose.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Adam - Ps. Shouldn't it be 'fuggeddabout'?   When in England....think of Hugh Grant  :P

I need someone took hook me up with Royal Hague (and de Pan), both sound charming.

As I suspected, it didn't take long before seven of my favourites were mentioned. 

Enniscrone
Portrush Valley
Lahinch
Cruden Bay
North Berwick West Links
Pennard
St Enodoc

Ciao

Hey Turkey! I already invited you, more than once! You don't need someone you have someone in DD.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Top 10 links is very very hard.


Royal County Down
Royal Dornoch
Ballybunion - Old
Lahinch
Deal
Cruden Bay
Pacific Dunes
Royal Portcawl
North Berwick
Noordwijkse :-)

With a huge list of followers that are not second tier but that I would rank above every single parkland course on the planet.


Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Adam - Ps. Shouldn't it be 'fuggeddabout'?  When in England....think of Hugh Grant  :P

I need someone took hook me up with Royal Hague (and de Pan), both sound charming.

As I suspected, it didn't take long before seven of my favourites were mentioned.  

Enniscrone
Portrush Valley
Lahinch
Cruden Bay
North Berwick West Links
Pennard
St Enodoc

Ciao

Hey Turkey! I already invited you, more than once! You don't need someone you have someone in DD.

Very fine!  

Turkey?  My dad uses that word  ;D

Brian

I thought you were already experienced?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing